Transcription of Beth Shissler for the show Sisters #41
Dr. Lisa: Today on the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast we are thrilled to be able to have a conversation with sisters. Two sisters in here, both very interesting in and of their own right. Beth Shissler is the co-owner and President of SeaBags, Inc. and was born and raised in Maine and her older sister … am I allowed to say that you’re older, Linda?
Linda: Absolutely.
Dr. Lisa: OK. All right, so her older sister, Linda Greenlaw is America’s only female sword fishing captain and author of three New York Times best-selling books about life as a commercial fisherman which we’ll talk more about later, but thanks so much for coming in today.
Linda: Thank you for having us.
Beth: Thank you.
Dr. Lisa: Now, I talked to Beth a few weeks back and I was fascinated to hear about your growing up in Maine. What was it like to grow up in Maine and then both of you take very sort of international kind of paths? You started here but you’ve gone lots of places now. How do you think growing up in Maine shaped that?
Linda: I think that our family had a lot to do with how my sister and I sort of developed through the years. We had a very close-knit family, but we were exposed to a lot but it was a lot of natural things. We didn’t travel. We went between Topsham, Maine and Isle au Haut which is our summer home, which is where our dad’s family is from. We didn’t do vacations. Our family did not go to Florida. We went to Isle au Haut and it was always just such a … our first love was going to the island. We lived for it.
Beth: I think that’s where we learned that hard working is really having fun too. We spent our summers up there from the minute school got out to the minute school went back in again, and we didn’t have electricity. We didn’t have plumbing. We didn’t have TV up there. We didn’t know any better. Our fun was lugging things up to the lighthouse. It was helping our dad create a road when we needed to. It was bushwhacking. It was putting around the shore. Whatever it was.
Linda: Right. If we needed fresh water we had to travel up and down a huge hill and carry it by hand. Dip it out of a well by hand with buckets and dump them into containers and carry them up the hill. Actually, our punishment if we were doing something wrong mother didn’t like is we’d hear this glug, glug, glug. She’d be dumping the water down the sink and say “Time to go get water.”
Beth: And it would take us all day because we found a few distractions along the way, but I think that that’s when we really learned that working could be fun. I’m not sure we every considered it work. I’m not sure we still do.
Linda: Especially once we had a vehicle down there that whenever we went to get water we’d steal the car, but clearly life on an island as a kid you do have so much more independence, so much more freedom. I like to say that our nephews … I love watching them because they do all the things that we did as kids and it’s just kind of fun to relive our childhood through them. I think like the safety of the kids is checked at the high water mark. If they’re below the high water mark they have life jackets on. If they’re above the high water mark they probably have a helmet on because they’re going to be on a bicycle or a motorcycle or a four wheeler. It’s a pretty special place to grow up. We had a really nice childhood and our friends would probably tell you we’ve had a really long childhood, but that’s OK too.
Dr. Lisa: Let’s back up a little bit. For people who are listening, I know that Isle au Haut is a very special place for lots of different reasons, but tell us a little bit about that. What is so special about Isle au Haut?
Linda: Well a lot of things are special about Isle au Haut. Half the island is Acadia National Park so it will never be developed. There’s beautiful hiking trails, but because it is so remote there’s not a lot of use in that park. You have to get there by mail boat. There’s not a state run ferry so you can’t bring a car over. You have to really want to get to Isle au Haut to be there so it makes it a pretty special experience for visitors. As far as having family there, it’s a very close-knit group. They say it takes a village to raise a child. It’s true on Isle au Haut. There are four kids in the Isle au Haut schoolhouse. One of the very few remaining one room school houses on a remote outpost, probably in the world I’m guessing.
It’s just special for a lot of reasons. There’s one little general store. One fuel pump for gas. I mean the store’s open, right now, about four hours a week. Very small window of opportunity to get your groceries so you really have to plan ahead or have good neighbors that you can bum stuff from.
Dr. Lisa: Is there now electricity or water or any of the modern conveniences?
Beth: Oh yeah. Yeah, we have internet. Although I don’t have it at my house yet, but we do have internet. Plumbing and electricity, but I can check my email at her house. We have all the things that people need.
Dr. Lisa: Linda, I want to talk a little bit about your sisterhood. Your name came into international renown with Sebastian Younger’s book “The Perfect Storm”. Did you know how dangerous her job was when you were … she’s older than you are so did you know? Do you worry about her? Beth.
Beth: I absolutely do worry about her now. Back then, at the time where she was fishing I was actually living in Japan. I didn’t know any better. Linda’s eight years older. When she started sword fishing it was to put herself through college I just thought it was kind of cool summer job. Now I’m fully aware and it’s a little bit easier now than it used to be because we do have radios and we do have satellite telephones so when she’s been fishing the last few years I’m the pain the butt sister that tends to call in at $80 a minute when I shouldn’t just to make sure she’s OK.
Linda: Listen, I was in Kenya a couple months ago working as a consultant for fisheries and I think the guy that hired me got a very panicked email and phone call because I hadn’t done a daily check in. I’m in Kenya. I need to call my sister every day.
Beth: Yeah, we have a little separation anxiety at this point, but … actually I do. You don’t.
Linda: No, I do too.
Beth: Thanks.
Dr. Lisa: You feel that in a psychic way as well as in a …
Linda: Yeah, we are. We’re never …
Beth: Not so psychic. She didn’t check in.
Linda: Yeah, right.
Beth: There was no psychic going on.
Linda: We’re a lot of things. Number one we’re very close sisters. Number two we’re best friends. Number three we’re business partners so there’s a lot of connections there. There’s a lot of reason to be checking in on a daily basis.
Dr. Lisa: What made it possible for you to have such a successful relationship? There are some sisters that don’t get along at all, so what do you think were the things that contributed to this really positive on-going interaction?
Beth: I think that our whole family is very … our entire family is very close. I have a twin brother who’s … Linda and I are both extremely close to and adore his children. We had another sister that we were also very close to. I think we have to credit our parents for just instilling family as a really important thing because at the end of the day we know that we can count on each other.
Linda: Yeah. I agree to that and I think that’s the bottom line of it. It’s the way we grew up. A close family. We were like actually horrified, and we have this conversation occasionally because we have friends or whatever who are like “Oh, they haven’t spoken to their mother in … They’re mad. They’re having some big fight or they hate their sisters.” Like, what? Are you kidding me? We’re like wow, and we find out that actually we’re the strange ones because we don’t fight.
Beth: Yeah, we actually horrify a lot of our friends because when they come to Isle au Haut … We’re really clannish. We all have our own houses out there so we go back to our own pillows at night but we actually spend every meal together. It’s a little bit weird. I mean we thought it was normal until we have friends out there that are like “Oh, we’re going to eat with your family again.”
Dr. Lisa: And you have a good relationship with your mom, too. She was also was part of a business venture recently. Do you want to tell us about that?
Linda: My mom and I have co-authored two cookbooks which is a really special thing. I’ve always been a huge tomboy and I did a lot with my dad growing up and did a few things with my mom but it was mostly just like hanging around the kitchen if she was cooking. I might stir something, but doing a cookbook with my mom was a very special experience. We did the first one when she was 70 years old and it was very cool and the cookbooks are something we’re really proud of. They’re beautiful. The publishers did a great job so it’s be really nice.
Dr. Lisa: For those who are listening who want to get one of those cookbooks, can you tell me their names?
Linda: Well the first one they can’t get any more so I won’t even bother with that one. The more recent one is “Maine Summers”.
Dr. Lisa: What type of food does that have in it?
Linda: It’s what everyone’s doing. It’s local, fresh ingredients. I think the difference is you know people say local and fresh. That’s nice, but on Isle au Haut there’s not another option. You have to eat what you have there.
Dr. Lisa: Beth, how have you incorporated your mom into your … maybe your business life or adult life?
Beth: There’s no option. Our mother incorporates into our lives. We should mention that we’re really close to our dad. My dad is the best business guy I know and he’s still kind of my go to for questions. When I just want to settle down and talk things through he’s the guy. At 82 he’s doing great.
Dr. Lisa: Tell me about your older sister. I think, Beth, one of the first times I ever spoke with you was right around the time that you have this tragedy occur in your family and I know it was really hard for you.
Linda: Yeah, our older sister Rhonda was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and sadly passed away eight months later, which we’re coming up on the one year anniversary. I don’t think I’m tougher than my sister, Beth, but she’s still tears up a little bit easier than I do. Again, we have a very close family. It was very tough. It was very difficult for my parents. You know no parent is supposed to be losing a child, but we all got through it and life goes on and we have great memories. Still, by the same token, it’s very sad to lose a sister.
Genevieve: Was Rhonda in between the two of you?
Beth: No, she was our older sister so she was ten years older than I am and two years older than Linda. A lot of silver lining to the whole experience … I say now that Rhonda really took one for the team. There were so many blessings through the whole thing. We all came together. We were there. We’ve always been there for each other but we were there from the minute she was diagnosed, as a family until the minute she took her last breath and celebrating her life still. It was a very difficult time I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It’s just a horrible, horrible disease but some good things happened too.
Dr. Lisa: Well, I’m very sorry about that and I know that … I can’t remember the exact percentage of DNA, but the closest people in the world are siblings. We all share about 99.89% of our DNA with our siblings which is kind of remarkable when you think of how different siblings are, but when I think of you and your sister I think well here she is. Right here in front of us.
Linda: Yeah. Thank you. I take that as a huge compliment, and I also take it as a compliment when I look at the sister next to me. It’s like yep. I’m sharing that DNA. I want all of it.
Beth: It’s nice that you say that. I feel the same way, but you might be horrified in some respects.
Linda: No, and what a difference a year makes. We’re coming up on the one year anniversary and so many great things have happened, and this year that is just amazing to think and we do credit Rhonda for being there and guiding us through it. However hokey that might sound to some people. Some remarkable things have happened to everybody in our family and we know that she’s really there watching out for us, so it’s a good thing.
Dr. Lisa: Tell me about some of the things that you learned during this difficult process.
Linda: I think the most obvious thing that I learned is that … and people say it all the time and you don’t pay much attention, is just how short life is and how you really need to just live and love every minute of your life because guess what? We’re not all here forever. None of us are here forever and some of us are here for a very short time.
Beth: Yeah, and think that in the last year we’ve really identified with that. We’ve made some decisions more easily and more quickly than we might have otherwise because life does change on an instant and on a dime. I think that we also learned that as strong as we want to be there was nothing like hospice for us. It was really nice to have, as close as we all were and were there every single minute, it was really nice to have somebody that’s actually trained to guide us through the process and it was a real relief for our sister, too to have that unbiased, impartial person to come in that she could say anything and not worry about disappointing anybody. As much as we think that we can do it all, we just can’t in some cases.
Dr. Lisa: How are your parents doing with this?
Beth: Better by the day. It was a tough year for them. Like Linda said, no parent should have to go through that and they were there for all of it up until the very end. I think they’re better.
Linda: Yeah, they are much better.
Genevieve: How did your brother do in a house full of girls? A house full of sisters?
Beth: Oh, you mean the king?
Linda: I thought you were going to say “Oh, the other sister.”
Beth: He’s great. He’s great. He is one of our best friends.
Linda: And he is. Yeah, no doubt and I tell people this all the time about our brother, Charlie or Chuck. He is probably the best husband and father that I know and I take a little credit for that. Coming up in a house full of girls he knows how to treat women. Coming up with a father who is wonderful he knows how to be a good father and I think his wife, Jen should be thanking us. I’m sure we’ll remind her this weekend.
Beth: Yeah, he’s great in his own right and very much handled all the women very, very well. Ironically he has two boys so he’s probably grateful for that.
Linda: I’d say so.
Dr. Lisa: Now, he was a twin. You are a twin, Beth. Linda what was it like to have twin baby siblings?
Linda: It was actually a lot of fun and I remember when they were born because I’m eight years older I was eight years old. I spent a lot of time with my younger brother and sister. I babysat a lot. We always had chores as kids and my older sister and I, we took turns. One night we’d have the kitchen or we’d have the twins and if your duty was twins it was make sure they’re in the bathtub and make sure they get in their pajamas. We spent a lot of time together that way, and I remember when I got my driver’s license. I was 15 years old and of course the twins were seven, and if I wanted to use the family car it was like “No problem. Take the kids.” Which was great if you’re going for an ice cream cone but the high school dance was a problem. “Do I really have to take them to the dance, mom?”
Beth: We didn’t mind it.
Dr. Lisa: What was it like for you, Beth to have a twin brother?
Beth: It was great. My friends were always his friends. His friends were always my friends. To a lot of extents that’s still true. I always had a confidant I think because we were a boy and a girl. There wasn’t really any competition we were just really, really close.
Dr. Lisa: Do you feel that there is something different that you felt with your brother than with your sisters in terms of the nature of the relationship and what you learned?
Beth: I think anything different was really just age based because my sisters were eight and ten years older so growing up when we were in junior high or high school they were already off and starting their lives. I think really that degree is really just because of the age differences, but we’re all extremely, extremely close now. Ironically we all went off and did our thing out of state and we all came home. I tell every Maine parent that laments because their kids are leaving, don’t worry we all come back and we’re all back now and we’re all living very, very close to each other.
Dr. Lisa: Tell me about that. Beth, you’re the President of SeaBags and Linda, you’re an author of many best-selling books and you each have other ventures also and you’re also business partners. Tell me about some of the conflicts that have arisen. If there have been any. I just can only assume there have been and how have you dealt with them?
Beth: Well we’re not really fighters or arguers. I mean we’re both very opinionated so we both say what’s on our minds, but by nature we’re not really fighters.
Linda: Yeah, I think no we aren’t. I’m totally non-confrontational but I will say that I think one way that we’re very successful business partners is that … and these are my sister’s words, not mine … we each know what we don’t know. My sister has a business head. I do not.
Beth: Yeah you do.
Linda: OK, well thank you, but not really. OK. Different styles of communicating. We communicate very well together. I’ll just give you a very small example. Our writing styles are totally different. I’m a writer. I send something to my sister and she’s like “Oh my God. I could have said that in three bullets.” Now I just spent like all day writing like ten pages. Like no, bullets. But I’ll send her a few bullets and she’ll say “Is there more?”
Beth: Exactly.
Linda: Such a small thing, but I think we each shine in our own way and we complement each other very well because we do know two totally different worlds and I definitely … I say she’s the business head. We both have a lot of energy and positive energy so it just … it works well together.
Genevieve: OK, but Beth. She’s a captain. Is she bossy? Tell us secretly. A little bossy, older sister?
Beth: Probably on the boat, but boating isn’t my real expertise although she did put me through docking boot camp this weekend.
Linda: That was fun. Yes. My sister just bought boat with her husband.
Beth: Yeah, not necessarily bossy. I think that she’s really … for the longest time, being the captain of the boat she has everybody’s lives in her hand so she really has to take a positive direction and a strong direction on any decisions that she makes and I really admire that she can make a decision and not look back on it. I think that probably comes from that. I don’t know. No one’s bossier than I am, so I don’t know.
Linda: Except for mom.
Beth: Right, we’ll give her that.
Dr. Lisa: One of the things I’m interested in is you’ve each done these very successful businesses in and of your own right but you do have this joint venture that you’ve been working on recently. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Linda: We’re working together on … we formed a company called Linda Greenlaw Enterprises and it’s basically a branding company and licensing. It’s a new venture for us and right now what we have going on is Linda Greenlaw Select in which we’re branding fresh sword and tuna with my name and it’s somewhat successful for where we are. It’s a brand new thing and we’re moving ahead with it and we’re excited about it.
Dr. Lisa: And I understand that there are people who really want to be involved in this business that you have. People who have gone on your Facebook page looking to come on your boat to help you out with this.
Linda: Oh yeah. That’s another thing altogether. I’m going to spend the summer fishing for blue fin tuna right out of Portland here and the last three years … well last year tuna fishing and the three years prior to that sword fishing. Once my sister finally got me into this “OK, you really need to have a Facebook page.” Most of my fans want to go fishing. That’s most of the activity on my site is “Can I go fishing with you?”
Beth: We decided that this year we’re going to make that happen. It was really hard to do when she was sword fishing because it was 30 days out at a time and you really can’t take a relative stranger out 30 days. It’s just too much at risk, but tuna fishing, it’s three days at a time so we decided that we are going to have a contest to be Linda’s crew member for a week and then you’ll get the answer to the question of is she really bossy? Starting in July we’ll post the contest to be a crew member with Linda for a week and let the Facebook fans decide on the … up to the top ten and then Linda and her crew, her real crew, can decide on the top ten to pick one. They’ll be coming in September so it’ll be really exciting.
Linda: This is really fun actually because I am looking forward to seeing some of these videos submissions. I think we’re going to give them 30 seconds or a minute to do their pitch and why you should take me fishing and that is going to be … I have a lot of fans in India, Germany. We might be springing for a big plane ticket.
Beth: Italy…
Linda: Italy…
Genevieve: What are the core values of this new company, Linda Greenlaw Select?
Linda: The fish itself is fresh, all natural, wild caught, sustainable and the company core values my sister can …
Beth: Yeah, our company core values are about promoting eating fish, promoting the education of buying, cooking, and serving fish and maintaining our working waterfront.
Dr. Lisa: It’s interesting to me that both of you have this ability to risk but also this sort of stable foundation and both of you seem to have a little bit of an introverted side with the writing and the business mind, but also an extroverted side with going out and Linda, you’ve been on radio a lot. I think, Beth, you’ve actually done a lot of this type of interview before as well. Talk to me about that. Is that a similarity you share that you have these very disparate aspects to your personalities?
Linda: I think we do share it and I think something we share about it is that the introverted side comes quite naturally and the extroverted side is a learned thing. I’ve had to promote my books. I have to promote my work. My sister’s had to do the same thing. Fortunately … I mean I like to think that we both do it very well, but it is work. It doesn’t come naturally at all.
Beth: No, it’s hard. I think that Linda’s still more comfortable than I am. My idea of a great night would be a close dinner for six. Linda’s would be a close dinner for the whole island.
Dr. Lisa: Yet, I saw you at Pop the Kennebunks the other night, Beth and you seemed perfectly comfortable.
Beth: Sure, I had a great time. What’s not fun about that night? You get to get a little dressed up and drink a little wine and there were a few people that I knew so that was fun.
Dr. Lisa: Well describe a little bit of the process of sort of teaching yourself to become extroverted or teaching yourself to promote something that you believe in.
Linda: I think probably my experience is dramatically different from my sister’s and probably dramatically different from anyone’s. It went from many, many years as being a captain on a sword fishing boat and having basically five people to talk to on the boat, my crew members and an occasional radio conversation, to becoming a best-selling author and being in the public eye. Through my connection with “The Perfect Storm” and going on a 60 city in 60 day book tour in which there was national media, I went from being like wow, on this little boat bobbing around in the middle of the ocean for many years to “Oh wow, I’m going on the Today show.” I’m a nervous wreck. I’m sick to my stomach but knowing that I’ve never had a job where I’ve received a salary or any kind of a wage … I get paid for what I produce whether it’s putting fish on the boat or selling books, so you become very active in getting good at selling and part of that is liking what you do. Although I say it’s nervous time for me, even like right now I’m sweating doing this radio interview …
Genevieve: Which we can’t tell by the way. You guys both look perfectly relaxed.
Linda: Good.
Beth: Oh good.
Linda: Thank God it’s not TV.
Beth: Touch my hands.
Dr. Lisa: You still get nervous? You still consider it somewhat hard
Beth: I get nervous. I do public speaking and I’m still very nervous about that and I’ve done a lot of it, but I know that I’m good at it. I think the nerves are part of it.
Genevieve: Both of you, I know in your business ventures, have a sustainability consciousness in what you do. SeaBags and fishing ventures have to deal with the ocean and the health and the safety of the ocean. Lisa and I both being health care professionals know we want people to eat fish, obviously. The seas are getting over fished. We want them to eat healthy fish. The seas are getting polluted. Do you guys have any insight on that? Where do you stand on all of the turmoil around fishing and the use of the ocean?
Linda: I think the general public is a little bit out of the loop in what’s going on. For instance, you just said the oceans are being over fished. You know what? Fisherman in this country whether it’s commercial or recreational are the most highly monitored, managed, patrolled group of fishermen on the planet, bar none. The future of the fish is very rosy. They’re very protected. As far as the health thing goes I think there are groups in this country who are doing the general public a huge disservice by saying don’t eat this, don’t eat that. If it’s available to you it’s been through a lot of scrutiny. Eat it. Feel good about it.
We’re fatter than we’ve ever been as a country. National obesity crisis. You need to eat fish. It’s good for you.
Dr. Lisa: Just briefly talk to us about the future of fishermen. Living in Maine we know that there are problems with being perhaps maybe overregulated.
Linda: Overregulated and there are other factors and my sister can speak to this probably more appropriately than I can, what about the loss to the working waterfront?
Beth: Yeah, absolutely. It is tough to make a living in Maine on the working waterfront and fishing. What I love about doing Linda Greenlaw Select Fish is that really, really encourages people to eat fish. One of the most rewarding things that we see is when a mother will write in on Facebook because she’s not generally looking for a job and say I got my son to try sword fish today because he saw you on TV and he likes it. Thank you. That’s the best thing that we can do is promote people to eat fish.
Genevieve: Let me just say that sword fish is a fish that many, many children really like because of the texture.
Beth: You hope so, right? You hope that kids like any fish or any kind of shell fish even and just getting them to try it. If it takes seeing Linda on TV to get them to take that bite of something then that’s OK. It’s a really, really exciting thing for me to get people to understand how to buy fish. On the opposite end of the spectrum, for me going into a fish store is absolutely intimidating. Even though I’ve got the best one right next door, and so I go in and I talk to them and I say “What should I have today? What do you recommend?” I think that’s part of our mission that we’re doing is teaching people how to buy fish, how to cook fish, and how to … educate them on the benefits of fish because it’s a local resource that is sustainable here in our state and we need to continue to support it from a financial front, from a job front, but also from a health source front. To me that’s the most exciting part of … taking Linda’s just knowledge that’s second hand to her and sharing that knowledge. That’s kind of fun for me.
Dr. Lisa: Beth, I also know that you’re involved with the Maine College of Art and I know that you’re on the Make a Wish Foundation Board, so there are other things that you’re doing that are very sustainable. I suspect Linda is similar. Why? With all the things that you do why are you choosing to also do those things and why those specific organizations?
Beth: Well, Make a Wish is probably the thing I do in my life that just feels the best. It’s to grant a wish for children with a life threatening disease and any child deserves that. It’s very … the cost of doing that financially is so low based on the reward for the child and for the people that are involved in doing it. I’m a huge believer in that organization and I gratefully dragged Linda in because she’s been willing to be dragged in.
Linda: Yeah, you didn’t have to drag very hard. Yeah, we both really believe in the organization and my sister’s on the board and I’m always very happy to go to the auction and bid my head off.
Beth: That’s fun.
Linda: I usually … I donate something to the auction also so it’s great.
Dr. Lisa: Well we appreciate your coming in and talking to us about Linda Greenlaw Select and the books that you’re doing, Linda and all of the things that you’re doing. SeaBags, Beth. I think what I’m finding from this conversation is that there’s some synergism that can take place when you have two sisters who have lots of shared DNA but also a willingness to really have a good relationship, so we appreciate your coming on and talking to us today about your sisterhood and all the work that you’re doing together.
Linda: Thank you for having us.
Beth: Thank you for having us.