Transcription of Maine Warden Service for the show Into the Woods #44
Dr. Lisa: Today’s as part of our, Into the Woods show, we’re interviewing John McDonalds who is a corporal at the Maine Warden Service. Thank you for coming in today and speaking with us John.
John: My pleasure thank you for having me.
Dr. Lisa: I have Genevieve Morgan next to me the Wellness editor for Maine magazine.
Genevieve: Hi John, I’m wondering how many miles you walk in a day if you’re out there on the job?
John: It’s going to be boring if you asking me that because I have an office job, but if you were to ask the warden in northern Maine he would probably could be measured in miles. For me it’s mostly walking from my truck and the miles are put on in the truck so …
Dr. Lisa: Well let’s talk about how you got to be a warden and what is the Maine Warden Service?
John: Well the Maine Warden Service is the nation’s oldest conservation law enforcement agency, we were established in 1880 and we have grown into a fairly complex agency responsible for many things. First and foremost I guess is what we’re most commonly known for, is special wildlife enforcement, recreational vehicle law enforcement and search and rescue. Anyone lost or missing in the woods. So it’s a complex job we also are state law enforcement officers so we have the same authorities as the state police. We concentrate on off road law enforcement.
Dr. Lisa: How does one become a warden?
John: Well actually we’re hiring right now and I get that question a lot I’m also the recruiter for the department. It is a complex testing system that takes about six months from sending an application and taking physical fitness exams and different things. It involves written exams, oral boards, practical exams making sure that people are that we’re hiring have knowledge of firearms and outdoor equipment. It essential that they are people that hunt and fish to some degree actually to a very high degree, that they are comfortable in the outdoors. It’s one thing we’ll want, applicants coming through us, the first time they’ve handled the shot gun to be in our interview.
We need to have them to be fairly experienced, there’s a swim test and a whole host of things, a polygraph examination and a psychological exam. An exam with the doctor and this takes about six months time to complete.
Dr. Lisa: Isn’t there a training program that one goes through?
John: Yeah, after that six months of hiring process there’s about well that’s exactly 18 weeks, that people that we are hiring go to the police academy. They go with all of the other police officers in the state, including deputy sheriffs and Portland police state police. Everyone goes to that one academy when game wardens graduate from that they continue on the, to the warden academy which is an additional 12 weeks. We get fairly extensive training.
Dr. Lisa: Do you find that there are challenges with different groups of people wanting to do different things in the same place, the hunters and then you have the recreational walkers, how do you manage that?
John: There can be conflicts most people recreate on private land whether it’s for hunting or snowmobiling or ATVing or hiking whatever. We really encourage and promote people accessing land with permission, and treating land like it’s their own. I hate to sound cliché but that’s the way it is. We are very fortunate in the state of Maine to have the open land and the private land that we do, and in many states that’s very different. You can generally and a lot of states allow recreational vehicle activity on their land, or recreational activities. Generally you have either pay a fee or I know there’s a process by which you would access that land but it’s different in Maine. I think we sometimes take it for granted that just because the land says no trespassing that it’s free to do as you please.
We encourage you to knock on doors and find out who the land owners are to keep that relationship a good one. There are conflicts whether it’s you know during hunting season or recreational vehicle use. People with snowmobiles and operating too close to homes with loud exhaust pipes that annoy people, at two in the morning when they go by I mean there are conflicts that we manage. We anticipate them when the season comes and we’re kind of ready for that, but there are conflicts for sure.
Genevieve: When you’re out there when one is out there camping or hunting or walking, and one of you guys comes strolling out of the woods. What is it that you’re doing what are you checking and how are you preserving the wilderness and safety?
John: Well we are essentially protecting Maine we’re … the insurance I guess so to speak for people that come to Maine or live in Maine enjoy the outdoors. We are looking to be sure that people are in compliance with the law, that they’re not for a hiker I think you use as example or a camper. We’re probably checking a camper in conjunction with maybe the fishing activity if they’re camped on the lake or maybe it’s hunting season or maybe they’re just remote campers in their canoeing or boating. We’ve interrupted them or encountered them during their trip 200 mile canoeing trip or something, but we’re looking for compliance of Maine’s outdoor laws.
To be sure that they’re treating the the land as it’s supposed to not leaving behind a bunch of litter. Or operating their boats safely, have their life jackets and their fishing license if they’re doing that type of thing. That’s what we’re doing and it changes with the seasons, that’s for sure.
Dr. Lisa: Are there specific characteristics about the Maine wilderness that bring people from, all over the country and really all over the world to experience our outdoors?
John: I think for sure there is, we are a unique state where we have a coastline that’s 3000 plus miles long I believe. A mountain system mountain trail system and lakes and the leaves that change and snowmobiling, we have all kinds of things that other states don’t. Or they may have pieces of it but we have it all so to speak, a lot of people refer to Maine mini Alaska, and we have a very unique outdoor recreational opportunities, the native Maine wild brook trout is exclusive to Maine now. The Maine Moose hunt is a very popular hunt that brings people from all over the world, and the lower 48 is hard to find the resources that you find in Maine and we’re lucky to have it.
People travel and by the thousands up here anyone visiting the Kittery Toll right now, you’re going to see boats and ATVs and campers streaming in from all over the place to come here to play. We’ve got the best playground and most people know that’s what drives our economy.
Dr. Lisa: Then yet I believe that our culture we’re experiencing what people are calling nature deficit disorder. There’s actually there’s a book called ‘The Last Child in the Woods’ so despite the fact that we’ve all these people that are coming from places to be Maine. We know that people are in general kind of heading away from nature, going towards computers and going towards media. What have you seen to be the impact, in your own family in your own life of this sort of thing happening?
John: Well I have a daughter that’s seventeen months old; she’s not yet at the stage where she is getting influenced by other kids in school with electronic devices and things. It’s something that we in my family she doesn’t watch television, I think if she’s watched 10 minutes of television I’d be surprised. In my family the influence certainly is going to be geared towards other things that will occupy our time. In general we still check a lot families that are boating or hunting or whatever, and they have small children with them. Whether I’ve seen a particular deficit disorder I don’t know, but it does seem to me like it wasn’t like it was when I was a kid.
Attention is been diverted to different things now like electronic devices, when I was a kid playing baseball and riding my bike, playing with the Tonka truck in my yard to me I don’t know we were little. That was what everyone was doing in my neighborhood and now it’s I don’t know, iPhones and the different electronic devices that I think can hold children’s attention. Personally I think it is an issue that if someone can’t spend their time idle for an extended period of time, I think it’s a little bit of an issue. If you have to have some diversion that’s if you can’t be away from your Facebook account or your telephone for an hour without having an anxiety attack I think it’s an issue.
Dr. Lisa: We have an influx of people who don’t know the regulations in our state, and who maybe spending a lot of time indoors or desk or on their computers. They come in the middle of the summer or in the middle of whatever … we’re in summer let’s say summer. They think they know what can be done on the water and in the mountains and in the woods, but it actually can put them at risk and you were saying one of your jobs is search and rescue. How did people do things safely in the Maine wilderness or what are the challenges there?
John: Well they have to educate themselves on the laws first of all; we have a unique radio station to us when they enter the state of Maine. It’s based on the seasons and it gives people kind of a heads up, at least coming up through the Turnpike to tune in to listen to an overview of what the most common activity. Where to go to find more information about it, first of all people need to take it upon themselves to learn about what they’re for an activity. Vacations are often times spur the moment lets grab the boat and the kayaks and head to Maine, and there maybe a new law laws regarding that type of activity don’t change a lot. Even familiarizing yourself with them is a good thing on a yearly basis, towing skiers for instance there are certain laws regarding towing a skier.
A person having a life jacket on and having an observer in the in addition to the driver, there are some people that come out to … truly may not know that law. Again I hate to sound cliché but not knowing the law really isn’t a great excuse, but you should know about it. A lot of our job is interpreting the law and explaining the law to people that may not otherwise know, and it isn’t a black and white thing if you don’t know the law one you’re going to get a ticket. There’s a lot of investigation that goes into dealing with people and a lot of interviews, and seeing what their level of intent is. A lot of our job is education it isn’t just issuing summons all the time and sometimes it is.
Dr. Lisa: Alright, talking about search and rescue, we had Kate Braestrup on our show back in December, and as you know she’s the Chaplin for Warden Service. She’s written a lot about the loss that is associated and the risk that is associated with going out into the woods. Sometimes being unaware, sometimes been unlucky, what types of things have you seen, that they kind of provided lessons for you as a warden?
John: Well yeah, we have seen a lot game wardens experience a lot of mistakes that other people make, and the outcomes of that. It does make you a little bit more prepared or educated at least from our stand point, on what, how we recreate. Usually well sometimes a lack of planning a lack of thinking about the worst case scenarios. Sometimes it’s truly becoming lost, if its children and we deal with a fair amount of children every year. We’ve about 500 thereabouts search and rescue calls each year and a large majority of them are children, and this time of the year is pretty dangerous. Even if they wander off into the woods which a lot of kids do, behind their homes or whatever it is, if they’re on a hiking trip or fishing trip where they’re unfamiliar.
Dressing during the day time today you’re going to be in probably shorts or a t-shirt, but as soon as the soon as the sun sets it’s going to get very cold like it did last night. Quickly it becomes a safety concern with hyperthermia, so on a situation like that it’s tough to get a head of that. Other than being right on top of your children all the time, which we know is not always possible. For the adults going out and in there … doesn’t even have to be a remote area but an unfamiliar area. Luckily now there are their cell phones and we get a lot of cell phone calls, that I am lost but I don’t know where I am please find me. We try to use coordinates from the phone and cell phone tower to find them, but those that don’t have cell phones it’s a major help for us to know where you were planning to go.
Leaving a note or telling a loved one if they aren’t going with you that hey I’m going to hike, such and such section of the Appalachian Trail today. I plan to be at this spot at this time, so that at least there’s some level of understanding where you are and the expectation that you’re going to return at certain times. People that don’t do that they just go out for the day by themselves or maybe there’s two of them. No form of communication and no indication of where they’re going or when they’re going to return, it’s a little bit of a needle in a haystack when we find their vehicle at a trail head. Not know if they went north or south or how far they plan to go. It’s so much quicker to find people when we have a little bit of information, like yeah I plan to go to summit pond or where …
Genevieve: How big is the wilderness in Maine do you know?
John: Well wilderness to me is uninhabited and untouched by humans; we have very little of that in Maine you probably have to go to Canada and Alaska to find a true wilderness. We have a lot of wild areas for sure and probably as much as any other state in the lower 48 and it’s vast land uninterrupted by roads, and homes and trail roads and those types of things. We have a lot of that and we certainly have a lot of space with trees, so couldn’t tell you how many …
Genevieve: Well and if you get into the woods and you … here and you’re in the middle of that wild area, everything pretty much looks alike to the novice person.
John: Yeah, for sure and it’s easy to get turned around if it’s an cast day when you can’t see the sun, a lot of people they know where the sun rises and the sun sets. If you’re … its afternoon and the sun off to your left well likely that’s to the west, if you know the area and you can walk to the west and find a road that’s good. If it’s over cast or raining or whatever it can be very difficult and you’ll get turned around very quickly.
Dr. Lisa: What percentage of the search and rescue operations result in tragedy?
John: I don’t have that statistic I would say overwhelmingly it’s a good outcome, generally we find the people that we’re looking for. Sometimes it’s we’re looking for people that don’t want to be found, so that is going to have a worse outcome and throw the statistics off a little bit. Because we look for people that have taken their own life, we look for people that don’t want to be found maybe they committed a crime and they’ve run off into the woods. Usually those cases you have an idea of what the outcome is going to be, but I’d say the most of the people we go and look for we find. Whether it’s a live or deceased but most people we retrieve them alive and return to them to their families happy, but I don’t have the statistics on exactly how many.
Dr. Lisa: And when there is a bad outcome how do you deal with that?
John: Well it’s kind of going by the numbers, we have pretty strict protocol on notifications and it’s a very sensitive situation with the family. We actually call Kate Braestrup most situations of Chaplin, and she works as a … liason between her department and the family and helps tremendously. But it’s relaying the facts to the family and the circumstances, and crossing our T’s dotting our I’s and make sure that everything is done appropriately. Getting the message out kind of is a wrap up when that’s done, that this is what took place and these are the things that we should have done. Please be cautiously you don’t do them.
Dr. Lisa: How do you and other wardens deal with this personally and emotionally?
John: Sometimes it can be very tough there are some triggers that sometimes go off, whether it’s you’re investigating someone that’s died it’s … maybe it’s a child and you have one of your own. Or maybe it’s a person with Alzheimer’s then you have a person with, then with your family and it can be tough. Investigating crashes that involve fatality that can be tough and making death modifications and those things. Police work in general involves that not just the warden service, but we see and do things that most people don’t want to do in that case. It’s again doing it by the numbers and doing it professionally and with some high level of care for the family.
Dr. Lisa: It sounds like unbalanced the time that you spend doing things promoting Maine woods, and been having outdoors and educating and interacting. That horror with some of difficulties associated with the job.
John: Oh sure yeah this … my own statistics and our percentage in my mind nothing to do with the departments view I guess. I’d say 95% of the time this job id fantastic, it provides you with great opportunities and … or promoting outdoor, recreational and state I think second to none. We’re kind of the front door department again wardens are and we’re who a lot of people see.
Dr. Lisa: Well so that all our listeners can have a happy outcome when they go into the woods, we’re talking about letting people know where you’re going. Taking a map if you can go to equipment water, food any other tips for our listeners out there?
John: Just use your head try … if you’re going to have a day of fun here in Maine try not to have all your fun on one day. We see that sometimes everybody … some people come up and they try to use … exhaust all their fun in one day because they’re here to play. Use your head, plan, cell phones, tell someone where you’re going, when you plan to return, follow the laws the life jacket laws are there for a reason. We are responsible for retrieving bodies from bottom of lakes and we’ve yet to find one with the life jacket on so …
Dr. Lisa: How about encountering wildlife bear or a wolf or something?
John: Yeah that happens …
Dr. Lisa: What should people do?
John: Well there’s a variety of situations and our encounters with wildlife are typically very good ones here in Maine. It’s understanding that there are wild animals don’t treat them as pets, most commonly right now when dealing with nuisance wildlife. We call them nuisance wildlife but basically it’s wildlife that have young that they’re trying to bring up, and they are out during the day time when people don’t typically see them. Because the mothers are trying to get food and they’re opportunist they like to ragger or in your garbage can in your bird feeders and … it’s understanding that they do that this time of year. We get hundreds if not thousands of calls I have a raccoon in my backyard, I have a red fox in my backyard what do I do?
It’s using your head taking away the temptations that’s bringing them there first of all. Certainly don’t go after them. A bear at a bird feeder, certainly don’t go after them, usually clapping your hands or banging some pots or pans will scare them. They’re much more scared of us than we are them. But … yeah that’s the day and life this time of the year so.
Dr. Lisa: How do people find more of this type of helpful information or find out more about the Maine Warden Service?
John: Well, online is probably the quickest way for people to look that way, and it’s mainefishandwildlife.com it’s mefishwildlife.com. The first anything specific to the warden service it’s mainegamewarden.com, and there’s a whole host of information there with laws rules and tips and things like that for people to look at so.
Dr. Lisa: For those people who are interested in hearing the key briefed up interview that we’ve talked about they can go to our website, and listen to the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast, podcast. The key feature is Kate and also Genevieve Morgan wrote recently an article that is coming out I think in the …
Genevieve: July.
Dr. Lisa: July issue on Maine magazine so people can certainly read more about her version of the Maine Warden Service there. We appreciate you coming in we’ve been talking to John McDonald a corporal in the Maine Warden Service, thank you for talking to us about going into the woods.
John: You are very welcome thanks a lot.