Transcription of New Beginnings, #68
Male: You’re listening to the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast recorded at the studios of Maine Magazine in Portland, Maine. Summaries Download past shows and become a podcast subscriber with Dr. Lisa Belisle on iTunes. See the Dr. Lisa website or Facebook page for details.
Male: The Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast is made possible with the support of the following generous sponsors. Maine Magazine, Mike LePage and Beth Franklin of ReMax Heritage, Robin Hodgskin at Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, Sea Bags, Dr. John Herzog of Orthopedic Specialists in Falmouth Maine, boothmaine, Tom Shepard of Shepard Financial, Apothecary by Design, and The Body Architect.
Lisa: This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you’re listening to the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast show number 68, New Beginnings. Airing for the first time on December 30th, 2012. A new year is almost upon us and with it the possibility of new beginnings. This week we’re inspired by an individual who has had many new beginnings in his life: new U. S. citizen Maxwell Chikuta, formerly of the Democratic Republic of Congo. We understand the challenges of new beginnings better with Susan Roche, Legal Director of the Immigrant Legal Advocacy Project.
As a physician I understand that new beginnings are happening within us all the time. Our cells in fact regenerate themselves fully every 7 years so we are equally building new cells and losing new cells all the time. We can’t help but be in transition and thus are available to us the possibility of new beginnings. What we do with these new beginnings is kind of up to us. We can value our bodies. We can take care of them. We can call them our temples. We can value the lives that we have. We can value the people in our lives and we can view our new beginnings as opportunities and view our relationships as treasures, or we can do the opposite.
We can just let life live us but I know that people who are listening to this show aren’t that sort. They are the sort who value the opportunities presented by new beginnings. In my own life as a physician, I spent time first in the field of family medicine, received training in preventive medicine and public health and worked as a medical director for the county jail and also as medical advisor for Maine Health. This was just one of my lives as a physician. I know that I have many lives ahead of me.
The life that I’ve been embarking on for the past several years is as a physician trained in acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine who also practices Qigong. I have a medical practice at The Body Architect. In all of my training as a traditional doctor and also as a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner, has enabled me to bring a higher level of integrative care to people. I also engaged in creating a new beginning when I became the host of this radio show and I’ve engaged in new beginnings for the birth of each of my 3 children.
All of these new beginnings were challenging and created sometimes obstacles and I experienced fear but certainly I experienced no more challenges, obstacles, or fear than Maxwell Chikuta as he traveled from the Democratic Republic of Congo to the United States with his family. I think that we can take the chance and create new things for ourselves and enjoy our lives, enjoy our relationships, enjoy our communities or again, we can decide that we’re going to stay stuck but your bodies are going to keep doing the cell regeneration, no matter what you attempt to keep them stuck in. They are going to keep regenerating those cells every 7 years.
We encourage you to do what your body wants you to do which is embrace these new beginnings throughout your life. We hope you enjoy our conversation Maxwell Chikuta formerly of the Democratic Republic of Congo and also Sue Roche of the Immigrant Legal Advocacy Project.
As an integrative medicine physician at The Body Architect, I ask my patients when they first come to see me what their goals are, what they hope to accomplish in their lives. I also ask them what their values are, what are they passionate about. When people are seeking to make change, when they’re seeking to create new beginnings, they first need to go deeper than themselves and actually find out what it is that makes them want to live, and when I say live I mean live. If you’re considering making new beginnings in your life, I would love to help you out with this or listen to what makes you really want to live.
Give me a call at The Body Architect 207-774-2196. Learn more about us on doctorlisa.org.
Lisa: As we head into 2013, we’re talking about new beginnings because everybody is thinking about how they can do new things in their lives. The person that I have across the microphone from me is somebody who I think has had many new beginnings in his life. I first heard about Maxwell Chikuta through a column that Bill Nemitz had done in the Portland Press Herald and I was very impressed with the story of this individual who became a US citizen on September 21st 2012. I’m honored to have you in the studio with me Maxwell. Thanks for coming in.
Maxwell: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.
Lisa: Maxwell, we’re talking about new beginnings and I know you’ve had so many. You originally are from the Democratic Republic of Congo and it sounds like you’ve had quite a journey.
Maxwell: Yes, it’s a long journey for me to be here today.
Lisa: Tel me about that. Tell me about what it was like to … first of all what it was like to live there.
Maxwell: Yeah, in the Congo unfortunately like everybody else you live with your family, your parental love. I missed that when I was a kid, the reason being that my parents divorced when I was 8. When I was 10, we had a Civiland I missed that so I didn’t grow up with parental love. Grow up in the third world countries is really difficult. I decided to go into the streets when I was almost 10 and ½. Live in the streets in the Congo it’s really difficult there. I don’t want to go in too much in details but fortunately my grandfather came to my rescue, took me to his village and taught me to be a good person in the community.
Lisa: In the Congo, most people live with families and your parents, you said, divorced when you were 8?
Maxwell: Yes. When I was 8, they divorced and they had 2 kids, 2 boys and 2 girls. I don’t know how they decide this because in the Congo, they don’t have … the wife goes out of the house. My mom left with my 2 sisters and I left with my dad with my elder brother but tradition, if you have an uncle, he has a right over you. My uncle came to pick us so that we can work for him. Unfortunately I was just 12 years old so he pick up my elder brother. I stayed with my father who married another woman. I was calling her Mom. She came with 2 kids, a boy and a girl but those were queen and the prince of my house. It was a rough world for me.
Lisa: You were very, you were very young. Only …
Maxwell: I was very young. I was very young. Yes, and again in Congo there is no law at that time so I was doing all the chores at my house. I will go to fetch water for the family, clean. At the end of the day, you’re the one who eats the leftovers. When school shopping comes, they’ll go saying that “Okay, stay and watch the house. We’ll come back.” When they come back they didn’t find the right size shoes for me and then I’ll get the leftovers from my step-brother so that I can go to school. It was difficult and I was told when my mom left where she went she got married but later on in my life, I was told that she passed. I don’t know how she did and I lost my 2 sisters. I don’t know how they died but she had another child with the man she married, my … I call her my step sister. She’s still alive and when I stay with my dad, it was on May 13, 1978. This date is still in my head because that changed my all life.
Lisa: May 13, 1978.
Maxwell: Yeah, it was on a Saturday.
Lisa: … and then what happened?
Maxwell: I woke up in the morning because I was that kid, I was a pioneer who used to sing and dance for our dictator Mobutu Sese Seko. Every Monday, we would raise up the flag and Saturday would bring the flag down. I was that pioneer in my grade school. On Saturday I had to go to school very early so that I can prepare for the parade but my dad was not home. He was working nights. I was going to school and I had one my teachers shouting my name, “Where are you going?” I said, “I’m going to school.” He said, “Go back home. Don’t you hear that those are big gun fighters. So, it’s a civil war.”
I went back home and the reason why I decided to go to school because in my village, they taught us how to learn and interpret the sounds of the drums. Sometimes they’re calling you for help in another village where there’s a party. Come feast with us or we’ve been attacked or there is a lion or an elephant …
Lisa: This is all because of … all by the sound of the drums you can actually hear different things like …
Maxwell: Yes, but that morning the sound of the drums didn’t make any sense to me. That’s why I decided to go but I was told by my teacher that’s a civil war. That was not … that’s when my life changed really because after the civil war, the International Red Cross came down consisting of American Red Cross and the European Red Cross. They came to help us and I was that child again. I was working with the Red Cross fetching water for them and in return they’ll give me tinned food so I’ll take home to my step mom but when they left, she couldn’t keep with life because she was also poor I think. She focused mainly on the 2 kids. That’s when I decided to go into streets because it was just too hard for me live with her.
Lisa: You were taking care of people in your family and even people that … your step mother that your father had married, from a very early age, from very young and you were a pioneer in your community doing things for your school and the community.
Maxwell: Yes. I’m that … I don’t know it’s a gift of God I think. It’s not that something I learnt. Working in my community, it’s not something I went to school to learn. It’s something which was in me. I’m that person who can just act because I see something, not … I don’t wait someone to tell me to do something. That’s why my teachers at school in every home across, they would put my leadership. They’ll pick me to be the captain of the class. Earlier on I was a pioneer for the assembly. The Red Cross, because we didn’t have water. You have to fetch water. Again I was curious to talk to them so they would send me, “Go bring water” and a couple of my friends really, we were doing that because the rebels won’t shoot the kids sometimes. That was the advantage.
Lisa: If you were carrying water, the rebels wouldn’t shoot you.
Maxwell: No, if you’re a child.
Lisa: If you’re a child? There was an advantage to taking on this additional amount of work.
Maxwell: Yes and also you take water for the Red Cross and they’ll give you tinned food. We had a lot of supply. Again I would go back to my home and we would enjoy the food.
Lisa: … but then was it hard for you to understand if you were this young and you were doing the work for your school and your community and the Red Cross, was it hard for you to go back home and see your stepmother not be able to handle life? Was it hard for you to understand that?
Maxwell: When I was a kid really I had a lot of questions. I had lot of blames why this but as of now, I’ve forgiven everyone.
Lisa: Looking back at … somebody who is 43 you can look back and say …
Maxwell: It’s all right because of poverty maybe if she had enough, maybe she would have taken care of me. I think that way. Yeah.
Lisa: Great. You were on the street by the time you were 10 and you have in your family a son, Maxwell, who’s 8. Can you imagine him or any of your other 3 children being on the street at the age of 10?
Maxwell: Yeah, that makes me cry really. I really … when I see kids here in America at that age … that’s why we have to take care of our kids. I don’t want to see my kids or anybody’s kids in the community to take my path. It was really difficult and when I see my son, I just say I have to work hard to make sure that he doesn’t go that way because it’s a rough road. I was fortunate because in the streets, you have rebels who come and grab the kids to take them into child soldier’s movement. How I survived, I don’t know. I give credit to God. Yeah.
Lisa: The rebels didn’t grab you to bring you in to be a child soldier. Somehow you managed to escape that.
Maxwell: We knew, we sensed it sometimes. When we hear that some people lost their livestock because the rebels come. We know that they don’t have supplies so they are near. We were sleeping in the tunnel, the water drainage near Marapolis and I know that spot very well. I can go hide nobody will find me, even now.
Lisa: In a water tunnel?
Maxwell: Yes. Yeah, so we knew that the danger is coming but again some of my friends were taken into child soldier movement, but as I said, how I survived or escaped … I was not better than any other kids, but I give credit to God himself because he was protecting me.
Lisa: Do you think that not having this parental love from earlier on caused you to need to be more independent and courageous?
Maxwell: In another way, yes. I will give myself 85%. When I look back, I said, “Okay, I have to do better. It’s not something which I am going to use to give excuses to the community. I don’t want to get back into the community because I didn’t get parental love.” When I look back, I said, “Okay, it’s happened and it’s happened for a purpose.” Maybe if I had parental love, I would have not been here. So who knows, it’s all the design of God. I strongly believe that. Again, I use that as a positive inspiration in my life to be where I am today and that’s why I look back to others. I want to inspire them and to be where I am or maybe better than where I am today.
Lisa: How did you get out of the Democratic Republic of Congo? What was your journey from there to becoming a citizen very recently here in Maine?
Maxwell: First of all, it was really difficult because my elder brother, when my uncle took him, they went to Lubumbashi which is the capital city of my state, Katanga. He joined the military because in the capital city when you come to age, you can willingly join the military. He was taller than me and huge.
Lisa: How old was he when he joined the military in the capital city?
Maxwell: I don’t really know the exact age.
Lisa: … But he was taller than you.
Maxwell: He was 4 years older than me. He was working under Mobutu regime all these years until 1997 when Kabila came into power and oust Mobutu. Kabila comes from my country or from my state, Katanga. He was trying to recruit bodyguard from his state so that at least he can have that cushion. It’s like, “You’re from Maine, you are the President. You want at least someone from here.”
Lisa: Somebody you can trust.
Maxwell: Yeah.
Lisa: He’s bringing a bodyguard around him that he could trust.
Maxwell: Yes. Yes. His main bodyguard was Edika Pang. He shared the same name with my family name. Edika Pang comes from my tribe actually. When he saw my brother also in the military and he was so huge, they assessed him and he recruited him to be the bodyguard of the President.
After when my grandfather took me to his village, I worked my way up. I graduated from school when I was 15, primary school. I was selling candies in the street. Then I built a kiosk which is a makeshift where you sell candies, bubble gums. When my brother was in the military, he helped me with some money for my business. The business grew and when he became a bodyguard, he was having of course lot of money, so he sent me $5000. That was the main problem because when the President was assassinated in 2001, it was also implicated that his bodyguards saying that …
Lisa: Your brother helped you out with money, helped you with the money for the kiosk, helped where you were selling things.
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: When the President was assassinated that caused problems.
Maxwell: They traced down … They said, “His brother, he’s got money.” Of course may be they got money from someone. I was coming from Tanzania for my business trip. I reached my border and I was searched. I used to collect coins wherever I go outside my country just for my collection. I have lot of them from Netherland, South Africa, Switzerland, and I collected this Rwandese money. I had it with me. It was just for my collection, but when I was searched, they find that money with me. They said, “You went to Rwanda because the Rwandese helped my former President, my dead President Kabila to oust Mobutu Sese Seko. They said, “Maybe I went to Rwanda again to organize so that they can take my brother out of prisons and so …
Lisa: You got in trouble because you had money from Rwanda even though it was just part of your coin collection.
Maxwell: Yes. Yes. At that time, my tribe, again I didn’t want to bring this, because my tribe and the Rwandese were fighting each other. Not that I was involved directly, I’m a Christian. Even he had a friend from Rwanda, we may go together very well but my tribe mates from Katanga they were fighting with Rwandese so at that time it was odd for them to see me with Rwandese money in my pocket. They say, “You have got Katangese how? You went to Rwanda, can you explain, and come back alive?” I say, “I was not in Rwanda. I was in Tanzania. They search. I lost my goods at the border. My pack was confiscated and they took me in prison.
From the prison there was a pastor because I was so much involved in the community. Again, people when they heard that Maxwell is in prison, they say, “No, we’re going to help him.”
Lisa: They took everything away from you.
Maxwell: From the border, yes.
Lisa: From the border and then they put you in prison.
Maxwell: Yes, I was beaten overnight. I was tortured at the border, Sumbalesa border.
Lisa: How old were you?
Maxwell: I was, in 2002, 34 or 33 may be.
Lisa: Still pretty young, but the community didn’t …
Maxwell: Yeah. When they heard about that, you have people who say, “No, we can’t let him, he’s just innocent.” My pastor helped me and sneaked me out of the country. Of course, border was Zambia so took me to Zambia. He arranged for papers for me to come over here.
Lisa: This is the pastor of you church.
Maxwell: He was the pastor of my church, yes.
Lisa: He arranged for you to cross the border and come to the United States.
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: Did you come directly to Maine?
Maxwell: Yes directly to Maine because when I was in prison, when my pastor came to visit me, I asked him to take care of my family. My shop was looted, closed, and they went into my house, interrogated my wife and she was traumatized with my kids and my stepsister and the kids all staying with. I had lot of people staying at my place because in my country when you’re well-to-do people, you have your distant family staying with you. When he told me that, I said, “Do something for them.” He took my wife first before he took care of me. That’s why I find myself here because we heard that in Portland you find Congolese and they will take care of you.
Lisa: When you were living there, you had 2 children?
Maxwell: Yeah. They were so yeah because my first born was born in 1997.
Lisa: Two young children and your wife Sally.
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: This was before they brought you to Maine.
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: You had to, you’ve already gone through now these beginnings in your life where your parents divorced, so you had to go to a different family.
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: Then you had to, then you lived on the streets. Then you had to create a new life for yourself with a kiosk. Now you have to start all over again.
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: How does it feel to come to Maine with 2 young children and a wife and to start over again?
Maxwell: Yeah, I’ll tell you my kids came later in 2005 but …
Lisa: Your, did you say your wife comes, and you come…
Maxwell: In 2000 …, yeah.
Lisa: You leave your children behind.
Maxwell: Yes. Yeah.
Lisa: What was that like?
Maxwell: It was really difficult because I was going through life and sometimes that’s why I say I give myself 85%, because the 15% sometimes I tend to look back at my life. When things are not working well, I say, “Why me, Lord? Why me? You took me from the street. You brought me where I am and now you’re taking everything I had in my life. Again, I ‘m going to start afresh, why me?”
Again, the 85%, it’s that inspiration I get from God through my faith. I learn to be strong in every situation. Of course losing my goods and my money, it was far much less than having life. I’m still alive. I can work hard. I can have other goods. I put everything aside and just trust in the Lord.
Lisa: You’re on the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast. We’ve long recognized the link between health and wealth. Here to speak more on the topic is Tom Shepard of Shepard Financial.
Tom: Today is the first day of the rest of your life. To quote my oldest daughter, Sydney, “Come on, let’s go. What’re you waiting for?” One year ago, on my birthday, Shepard Financial was founded. To say I chose my actual birthday to begin this endeavor would be about as accurate as saying that my life began on the day I was born. It’d be more accurate to say that if I had not chosen to go forward then life would have squeezed me until I finally decided to move on. We reach points in our life where the pain of falling back is so great that we really have no choice but to go forward and pursue our dreams or risk sort of dying, but you’ve prepared your entire life for that next step and so had I. If you’re in that place, all I can say is I hope that you don’t let the price of that one step keep you from the value of the life you’ll live after.
If you need help to deliver you to a new relationship with your money, send us an E-mail to [email protected]. Type in the subject, new beginnings.
Male: Shepard Financial, securities and advisory offered through LPL Financial member FINRA SIPC.
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Lisa: When you got here, not only did you come to a new country and have to learn a new language, but you also decided you were going to get an education in this new country. Tell me about how that happened. Actually, you have multiple degrees by now, fast forwarding, but you started back at Southern Maine Community College, is that right?
Maxwell: No actually, I was not really educated in my country. I was almost a graduate dropout because of hardship. My grandfather didn’t have enough to … in Congo you have to have money to go to school.
Lisa: When you were 15 and you graduated from primary school, you still didn’t have a high school degree at that time?
Maxwell: I did not, I did not.
Lisa: You went back and you did that when you came to Maine?
Maxwell: No, no. I came to Portland Maine at the shelter, Mr. Dennis Cooper. He is now retired, I was told so. He said, “Maxwell, I’m having difficulties communicating with you. I’m going to refer you to Portland Adult Education for your ESL, English as second language.” He took me to Portland adult education. I started the lowest English you can get. Whilst there, the director then Mr. Robert Hood just called me saying that I’ve seen something in you. You’re just different from other immigrants. What is your education level? I say, “No, I don’t have high school diploma.” He said, “Okay, I’ll put you into GED program.” Unfortunately, the city at that time could only pay for your ESL because they want you to speak the language, but they couldn’t pay for my GED, but Mr. Robert Hood took care of me and give him all the credit for that.
Lisa: You got somebody who was able to support your, the city paid for the ESL and them somehow Robert Hood found the money for you GED …
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: You made it through that.
Maxwell: Yeah.
Lisa: Then you didn’t stop.
Maxwell: I graduated with my GED in 2004. Then lot of teachers and mentors at adult education helped me to adjust with Southern Maine Community College where I took the entrance exam 4 times. The 3 times I was failing the exams because of the English language but I didn’t give up. People were encouraging me saying that you can make it. The 4th time I passed that entrance exam. In 2006, I started my journey at Southern Maine Community College. I graduated in 2006 with my HVAC associate degree which is heating, ventilation, air conditioning and refrigeration.
Lisa: That is Heating, ventilation, air conditioning, and refrigeration.
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: What does that enable you to do?
Maxwell: To get a good job because I was just a janitor at Maine Medical Center. I was working in the laundry. Then I worked in VS cleaning. Then I went in operating room. When I got my GED, that’s when I got a job in operating room. When I got my associate degree, I got a job with engineering department where I’m working even now.
Lisa: You were able to use your education and keep working your way up.
Maxwell: Yes. As my education was going up, my work was going also up to the HVAC position which I’m working right now.
Lisa: You also have a master’s degree in public policy management and finance. That’s unusual. You went from HVAC to something very different. How did you decide to go into that?
Maxwell: First I have a bachelor’s degree.
Lisa: You have a bachelor’s degree.
Maxwell: Yeah, in engineering and technology management.
Lisa: Okay.
Maxwell: I usually look an opportunity saying, “What can I do?” I don’t want to be a burden to the community all the time. People help me, but I have to look ways how I can also help my community. I don’t want to be a burden. I decided okay, I’ll go for my bachelor’s degree. I spent 3 years from 2006 to 2009, I used for engineering and technology in Gorham where I graduated with my bachelor’s degree.
Unfortunately, I don’t want to go into politician and jobs are hard to find. I didn’t get a job with my bachelor’s but I decided okay I have to do something related to what I am inside me. Who I am, I’m someone who was raised by the community. As we stayed in Africa that extended village to raise a child. That child was raised by the community. My grandfather worked hard but lot of people came in and even here in America, I find good people here.
People who stood beside me. People didn’t know me. They are not even my relatives. They just say, “Okay, we’re going to help you.” So me looking back saying that why are these people helping me then I have to find voice where I can also inspire other people in the community working in humanitarian work. That’s why I said, “Okay, I have to go with the public.” When I graduated with my bachelor’s degree, I decided to go and pursue my master’s in public service so that I can also work for a public and help others.
Lisa: All the while you’re working at Maine Medical Center and you’re supporting… By now, you have 4 kids and still a wife and you’re still learning and continuing in your 43.
Maxwell: Yes, in 9 years, I have been working full time night shift and pursuing full time college classes, it’s difficult. Taking full classes with limited English, it was difficult for me.
Lisa: Now you’re getting a Ph.D.
Maxwell: Yeah. Yeah. Just started with my Ph.D. program at Walden University. It’s also difficult. Now I’m getting older, it’s not like when I was younger. You can’t just think normally, but yeah, working full time, attending school full time, and volunteering in my community. Other people they say I volunteer full time and parenting 4 kids, it’s really difficult.
Lisa: Yeah, I want to go back to this volunteering piece. You’ve done work with Habitat For Humanity.
Maxwell: Yes.
Lisa: Why was that important to you?
Maxwell: It was important because when I just arrived in America, I was looking for ways to give back to the Red Cross I saw in my country when I was a kid. I was just thinking that these people, they leave their families and risk their lives to come and help us here. When I arrived here, I asked at the shelter, “Where is the Red Cross.” They took me to the blood bank in Forest Avenue, and my supervisor was a relative, this is how it’s working. You know, people they come and donate blood. You take it from them, but I said, “No, no, no. There’s another type of Red Cross. You work with people, rescue them. Oh! Wow! Okay.”
They referred me to Southern Maine Chapter. That’s why in 2004, I started my training with American Red Cross volunteering as the international humanitarian coordinator, and now I’m just a DAT member, disaster action team member. Again Habitat Of Humanity, because we, when I say we it’s not me, but Habitat Of Humanity would provide shelter for the needy families. I saw myself in that regard. I was blessed. I bought my own house, but what about other people? Are they working hard like I do? That’s what prompted me to go and volunteer with Habitat Of Humanity.
Then even at Maine Medical Center up to last year, I was volunteering 4 hours every week even though I was working there for 40 hours. I was working with a help program, working with elderly people, just talk to them. It was a good program when you put a smile in the face of patient, really people appreciate that. I still, I volunteer a lot with City of Portland. I am in the CDG program, community development grant. I am also in Portland public schools where I’m now serving in transition team for a new superintendent.
Why all this volunteering? The answer is simple because I wanna give back. It says that if you don’t have money you can even volunteer 1 hour a week and I’m doing that. I don’t have enough money but my work in the community, I feel like I’m impacting lives. I’ve received lot of cards from people just appreciating what I’m doing in the community. If everyone can do what I’m doing now, I believe our community will be better.
Lisa: Even if people don’t have money or resources or maybe speak the language and maybe they don’t even have an education or maybe they have a lot of children, it’s always possible to give something.
Maxwell: Yes. It’s possible because that look you don’t need to have money for you to inspire someone. When you … just pick a school. Go in grade 4, just read for them for an hour. I’m not a scientist but the brain of the kids in grade 4 that’s where it’s developing much so they’ll have that picture of you in their entire life. That’s 1 hour, are you going to inspire people and you be their picture for the entire life. Just can you imagine? If you don’t know how to read, we have lot of places you can go. Volunteer for 1 hour at the school kitchen. I have been there just to serve meal on the table. See how people really … It’s hard nowadays. Go to school kitchen. You can do something. It’s not that just money. No.
Lisa: I have a lot of questions that I could ask you but I think I want to end with this one. You have, you’re married to Sally. You have Sharon, Mehima, Manuel, and Maxwell. What are the lessons, you’ve provided them with a new beginning with them for them in their own lives. What are the lessons that you hope that you are giving them or sharing with them, your children?
Maxwell: As my daughter even at school she’s an ambassador. She is a Vice President of the club. I’ve taken her volunteering in the community and even my son, Manuel. I’m looking at ways to see that when they grow up, they become self‑sufficient and people can also give back to the community in the sense that they can volunteer. If God blesses them with money and good jobs, they can also do then because it’s in them. I was just laughing at myself there and they saying that okay, we came from the Congo. We say, “Okay, now we’re in America. We’re still struggling to find jobs and but the answer came saying that, “Oh! I’m the 1st one here so I have to pave ways for my kids, for my kids, so that my kids they become better and not really a burden to the community.
That’s the answer that really strikes my head. I say, “Wow! I’ll continue to inspire them to be good people in the community. People at [inaudible 00:39:39] where my son goes, they did appreciate that. Every time I go there, they say, “Wow, your son is just amazing. He has got that leadership qualities, a captain in his soccer team.” I thank God for that. Part of that is the case and introduced them to God when they’re still kids that’s just me and I’m telling them that the community it’s not only race or religions or gender. The community is colorless.
This year we received an exchange student from Japan in our house despite that I have lot of kids in my house but we still received her. We took care of her, showed her places, and why, because I wanted my kids to see that when they grow up they don’t have that attitude to see the color or gender or anything but to see that they were all equal and to respect the humanity as I was told by my grandfather.
That’s why I’m trying to see my 4 kids and other students of health at the learning centers who are different in color, or in gender. I told them the same things and that really need to see that we are blind as far as helping is concerned. That’s why I’m serving to the public. Because the public it’s defined by all definition I just gave you for the race, gender, faith, group. I mix with Muslims and they’re the ones who have nominated me to ICL, Institute for Civic Leadership, but I’m a Christian. People who comeandsay, “You’re a Christian, but how come you’re playing with Muslims?” No, we are all equal into God’s sight that’s why I want to see my kids also take the same path and live better in our community.
Lisa: Maxwell, I am very privileged to have spent time talking with you today and I really appreciate your sharing these minutes with me and telling me your story. We’ve been speaking with Maxwell Chikuta, former resident of the Democratic Republic of Congo but now a Maine resident in US system.
Maxwell: Yes, I really appreciate that. I’m now American who shares same value and I pray to God that I continue to respect and work in this community. If you can just allow me, let me just take few minutes to appreciate few people who really helped me like you just mentioned about my citizenship. I would have not been here today if it was not for ILAP, Immigration Legal Advocacy. They really helped me with my asylum papers and they introduced me to this wonderful lawyer, Mr. James O’Keefe and Margaret. They took me, they dropped me to Boston like 2 times and I’m here because of these people. All those people helped me in with my school, if it’s editing, my home mates. I can’t really mention everyone but really I do appreciate my community. Thank you very much. God bless you. Continue to do what you do good in the community, and Dr. Lisa, I appreciate your time with me.
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Lisa: On the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast, we speak often about the health of a community, and today’s show is about new beginnings. People who come into our community from somewhere else and thus their health and the health of their families become important to a community, and one other thing that’s very important is the things that enable them to have good health which is things like legal rights.
Lisa: In Maxwell Chikuta’s interview, he mentioned that he was helped out in great part by the immigrant legal advocacy project. We are thrilled today to be able to have across the microphone from us, Sue Roche who is the legal director of the ILAP, the Immigrant Legal Advocacy Project here in Portland. Thanks for coming in.
Susan: Yeah, thank you Lisa.
Lisa: Why is it important for us to have an organization like ILAP or the immigrant legal advocacy project here in Portland?
Susan: Sure. Well ILAP is the only organization in Maine that helps immigrants in their immigration cases and it’s really important because immigrants aren’t provided with free representation. Like in a criminal case, people can get an attorney whereas in immigration system, you are not provided an attorney. The immigration laws are very complicated and often even if somebody is very educated, they can’t understand. The laws are changing everyday and the procedures can be very complicated. It’s often really essential that they have an attorney who can help them through that process. Without having immigration status, they’re not going to be able to then work or go to school and do the other things that are really important in their lives.
Lisa: What are some of the specific legal challenges that people who are immigrants might face, that people who were born in this country already have citizenship, already have access to?
Susan: Certainly. I think the most important thing is work authorization. Somebody who doesn’t have permanent legal status isn’t authorized to work. For example, even somebody in the process sometimes, somebody might have fled Rwanda because of prosecution and they have a right in the United States to apply for asylum. There’s a long process that they have to go through for that. It often will take time for them to even find a lawyer and then once they have a lawyer, a lot of time to prepare their application, and then once they file their application with immigration, it takes another 6 months before they can even work. Between that entire time, they are not able to work, they are not able to support themselves so that can be a real challenge.
Lisa: When people come to this country, Maxwell talked about being supported by some pastor in his country and coming over here and there was a Congolese community already in place. What about people who come as individuals there’s not a community readily available for them? What is that like for them?
Susan: It’s really a challenge and people are often living homeless for a while. They, yes, it can be very challenging if they don’t have family members here. They don’t have a community. They really have to sort of start from scratch and it can be a real challenge.
Lisa: How do you deal with the language barriers that sometimes come into the situation?
Susan: Certainly. That’s a real challenge for a lot of people who come to the country who don’t speak English. It’s much more difficult for them to communicate with everyone. There is often not translation services everywhere. At ILAP we have attorneys on staff who speak Spanish, we have a Somali speaker on staff and we have interpreters for work with other clients, but in terms of, just sort of getting along in day-to-day life, it can be real challenge if you don’t speak English and also even when people are authorized to work, it can be very difficult to find jobs. They may have been a doctor back home, but here, they don’t have their English skills or the credentials to be able to do that.
Lisa: What are some of the biggest, let’s just say community and now you said Somali.
Susan: Sure.
Lisa: Some of the other communities that exist right now within Greater Portland and Maine.
Susan: Sure. Well it’s interesting. Actually I was speaking at a symposium for the BARR meeting last winter and was on a changing population in Maine which the aging and the growing immigrant population and we listed a lot of numbers in pulling out some census data from 2000 and 2010. There’s been a 20% increase in foreign born individuals during that time period. Less than 1/3rd of Maine’s foreign born population has been here for less than 10 years. It’s a real growing immigrant population and just looking at the individuals, there’s a 529% increase in African born individuals, 43% increase in Asians, and 62% increase in the Latin American population.
Then just looking back at the numbers for ILAP, in 2000 we had 2 Scott persons and it was the beginning of ILAP. That was the 1st year that I was there, so we had a smaller client base, but just looking at the changes, in 2000, our top 3 countries were Mexico, Honduras and the US with US citizens who were filing for family members. In 2010, it was Somalia, Iraq, and Sudan where Somalia was only 3% of our population in 2000 and were 23% in 2010. Other growing population, we have seen a lot of Burundians, and Rwandans, and Congolese in recent years but it’s been a real interesting shift in a while. Latin American population has been staying about the same. They’re growing a little bit but there’s been a large growth in the African populations.
Lisa: That’s an interesting challenge. Your organization has been around a little bit more than a decade and it’s little bit like shifting sands. No sooner are you kind of familiar with one group and their cultural situation, their challenges and advantages, then another group comes along and then you have an entirely different set of background. How has that felt as an attorney practicing within the system for a decade?
Susan: Well, it’s actually really nice. I mean, the all, interestingly even if people come from different cultures, different countries, and different backgrounds, they’ll have the same issues. They all want to be together with their families. They want to be safe. They want to be working. They want to be productive members in the community and being able to meet people from lots of different countries is really a great benefit, and I think it’s a great benefit to our community. People come in and bring new thoughts and new cultures, and they start businesses. A lot of immigrants are likely to sort of stay around their families so I think it really adds to our community to have people who are staying in Maine instead of moving out of state for jobs, I think it really adds a lot.
Lisa: You mentioned people coming from other countries who might be a doctor in their country. We talk about the bringing drain, people leaving our state, being educated leaving, or growing up and leaving but we are bringing in very educated people from sometimes other parts of the world.
Susan: Yes.
Lisa: How is this influence sort of the fabric of our culture do you think?
Susan: Well, I think it’s a great thing. One of the unfortunate things is that they’re often not able to find jobs in their fields and they’re often very overqualified for the jobs that they have but they do really bring a lot of, lot to our communities and they’re starting lots of businesses. Maxwell is a great example, who even if they don’t come here with a lot of education, they come here with this real enthusiasm and desire to live the American dream and they go to school, they work hard. They really want to make sure that their families are doing well and Maxwell is a great example. He came here. He got his high school diploma. He got his college degree and his master’s and now he is going on to get a Ph.D. and I think that really has so much to offer to our community here.
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Lisa: Now ILAP is relatively young as an organization. You described you didn’t, you had I guess 2 or 3 attorneys early on and how many attorneys do you now have? How many staff?
Susan: We have 11 staff now.
Lisa: This must be an organization, don’t sound like this, doesn’t sound like you can do this for free.
Susan: No.
Lisa: How do you do with fundraising and where does the money come from.
Susan: Actually we have a mix of funders from recurring grants through the Maine BARR foundation in united way to private foundations and our annual fund of individual donors. We don’t receive any government fundings. They were dependent grants and individual donations. We also have an annual event at Celesoiree that happens every spring.
Lisa: If people wanted to come to Celesoiree or if they wanted to donate to your organization how would they find you?
Susan: They kind find us on Internet at www.ilapmaine.org.
Lisa: Is it easy enough for people who are out in the community who need your services to find you as well?
Susan: Yes. They can. People who don’t have Internet access can call us. We do have kind of intake every Friday where we take new clients between 9 and 1. People can either call our office at 207-780-1593 or they can come into our office if they’re in the Portland area. During intake, we sort of assess what people’s needs are and then we determine whether they need a consultation with an attorney and then we set up for appointment with an attorney.
Sometimes they are ready to fill out a form and just need assistance for that so we schedule an appointment for them to fill out a green card or citizenship application. Then some people have legal complications, into our consultation, we may determine that that they actually need an attorney and then might end up representing them.
Lisa: What are some lessons that you have taken away from doing the job that you’ve done? What are some of the things that have really hit you the hardest of that last decade of working in this field?
Susan: Well, I think one of the most difficult things is realizing that you can’t help everyone. Being the only organization in the state, the difficult thing for us if we turn anyone away, there’s nowhere else for them to go and that’s something we’ve really struggled with. Since I’ve been there, it is sort of learning how to say no to people and it’s very difficult. We still haven’t learned how to but trying to find that balance of making sure that we do the very best job in the cases that we have and not sacrificing the quality and then also trying to help as many people as we can and we’re constantly working on that balance.
Lisa: How about you as an individual person?
Susan: I’ve learnt that the amazing journeys that people have to come to the United States, the things that they give up. It’s really kind of bracing to be able to leave everything you know, your language, your culture, your job, your property and to come to a new place where you have no idea. You’re going to find often people leave family members behind and just really seeing the human spirit and how strong people are and how resilient and then watching them flourish once they get here is really a wonderful thing to see and I think Maxwell is a great example of that.
Lisa: Well Sue, I appreciate your stunning time talking with me today. I would encourage people who are interested in finding it more about ILAP to go to ilapmaine.org which we will also put up on the Dr. Lisa website. Thank you for taking the time to well, really dedicating your legal career thus far to helping people come to this country and set up new and healthy vibrant community and much to live. This means a lot I’m sure to the people that you help but also the people around the people that you help. I appreciate your talking with me about this today. I’ve been speaking with Sue Roche from who is the Legal Director of the Immigrant Legal Advocacy Project here in the Portland area.
Susan: Great Lisa, thank you for having me.
Lisa: You have been listening to the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast show number 68, New Beginnings. Airing for the first time on December 30, 2012. Our show included discussions with new US citizen Maxwell Chikuta formerly as a Democratic Republic of Congo and Susan Roche, Legal Director of the Immigrant Legal Advocacy Project. Find out more about our guests on doctorlisa.org. The Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast is downloadable for free on iTunes. For a preview of each week show, sign up for our E-newsletter and like our Dr. Lisa Facebook page.
You can also follow me on Twitter and Pinterest Dr. Lisa and read my take on health and well being and living on the bountiful blog, bountiful-blog.org. We love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of our show and if you have suggestions for future shows. I personally love to hear from you at the Body Architect. If you want to give us a call over there at 774-2196.
Also please let our sponsors know that you heard about them on the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast. We wish all of our sponsors a very happy 2013 and in fact, we wish all of our listeners a very happy 2013 as well. This is Dr. Lisa BeLisle hoping that our show will inspire new beginnings in your life. Thank you for letting us be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.
Male: Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast is made possible with the support of the following generous sponsors. Maine Magazine, Mike LePage and Beth Franklin of ReMax Heritage, Robin Hodgskin at Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, Sea Bags, Dr. John Herzog of Orthopedic Specialists in Falmouth Maine, boothmaine, Tom Shepard of Shepard Financial, Apothecary by Design, and The Body Architect.
The Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast is recorded at the studios of Maine Magazine at 75 Market Street in Portland, Maine. It is produced by Kevin Thomas and Dr. Lisa BeLisle. Audio production and original music by John C. McCain. Summaries of all our past shows can be found at doctorlisa.org. Become a subscriber at Dr. Lisa BeLisle on iTunes. See the Dr. Lisa website or Facebook page for details.