Transcription of Stargazing, #123
Lisa: This is Dr. Lisa Belisle, and you are listening to the ‘Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast’, show number 123, ‘Stargazing’, airing for the first time on Sunday, January 19th, 2014. Today’s guest is a psychologist and a holistic astrologist, John McLaughlin.
Today is my birthday, and as such gives me an opportunity to think about where I have been, where I am going, and just exactly who I am. The ladder is an elusive idea to be sure. Just who any of us might be is impacted by many variables. I know I am not alone in giving the serious consideration each year on the anniversary of my birth. This year, I’m indulging in a guilty pleasure on having my friend, John McLaughlin, join me to talk about the stars.
We will spend our hour discussing how we are impacted by the energy of the planets, an idea that has basis in ancient astronomy, and is increasingly verified by modern physics. We know you’ll be intrigued by our conversation. Thank you for joining me on my birthday show.
Today’s show is my birthday show. What I have learned about myself as a doctor who has many, many years of western medical training and also many years of eastern medical training is that I’ve become fascinated with the stars. It may be somewhat counterintuitive because it’s not always something we consider to be rational, but the stars actually have been studied for thousands and thousands of years by civilizations, and actually there’s a scientific basis to some of the astrology that has been studied.
I thought I’d bring in another very well-trained Portland psychologist to talk to me about astrology today. This individual has had probably more years of education than I have and still finds himself fascinated by the stars. John McLaughlin, thanks for coming in and in fact, thanks for coming back because you came in in one of our early shows and talked about laughter, and now you’re going to talk about stargazing.
John: Stargazing. One of the things I’d like to say about astrology, which has some bad press which we all have to admit, is that if we look at the history that you all have as physicians in hospitals, we always discover that in terms of birthing times, in terms of disturbance, in terms of accidents, in terms of major illnesses, the full moon is always the ripe and pregnant time for all sorts of medical emergencies and sudden births, etcetera, etcetera.
Further more, aside from the moon affecting the times, it actually affects our whole energy field. One of the ways that sort of is an apologia, I describe astrology to the skeptics is let’s for a minute take say the planet Jupiter or Saturn just completely take it out of orbit, eliminate it. What is going to happen? There is going to be such a massive reorganization of the entire solar system, that if we think anything even a palm tree is going to be left standing on earth, we have our heads in a sack. There will be decimation of everything because all the orbits will be reorganized and very quickly, so that we’re not living isolated on our planet. We’re part of a huge energy system. All of the energies of each planet, which are the heavenly bodies as the ancient astrologers used to call them, relate to one another.
In that relationship, we are part just as the people who give birth at the time of the full moon or the new moon. The new moon also has an effect. Those births are most often ones that are precipitated by a certain energy field that occurs with the full moon. We can’t ignore these things. I worked in the Netherlands in what was called the Neurosis Clinic, a clinic residential hospital for the truly disturbed, the psychotic. All of them were taken within two weeks to a month off any medication. We worked in a non-medicated atmosphere. I initially went to train the psychiatric staff and then joined the staff after that when I was in the Netherlands which was about six months a year.
All of us knew that as we approached the time of the full moon, our alertness levels had to go up substantially because the change in the tenor of people’s disturbances was absolutely clear. We couldn’t ignore it. Those facts in terms of how hospitals work, how physicians work, what happens in terms of birthing and accidents and disturbances in people who have psychological problems, we can’t ignore that. That is part of the whole astrological field that we’re dealing with.
To me, it’s very simple. For people for whom this is more difficult to swallow, to digest, the way in which I suggest a solution is to begin to understand how deeply related we are to everything. Many years ago, I sat on the deck of the house I had in Arsoostok, and there were chipmunks and squirrels playing and it in was in the fall when the chipmunks were filling their cheeks full of nuts. The realization of how utterly common to earth we are, we people were totally common to this earth, as common as a chipmunk, a squirrel, a seal and there were seals right off the shore, and the eagles lived on an island in the middle of the river on the Kennebunk, and all of us are common to this world and we are all affected by it.
Dr. Lisa: I did an article. I wrote an article for the ‘Farmers’ Almanac’ one year, and we were actually talking about the seasonality of illness and of birth and death. There have been studies that tell us that, especially older people, but really people of all ages die more during a certain time of year, we become ill during certain times of the year. There is something about the weather, the light and the energy.
I did try to look up things about the full moon because I had delivered lots of babies under full moons, I had been in the emergency room during times of full moons and it was crazy. It was always crazy, and yet we have nothing yet that has studied the impact of full moons. I think it’s not possible. It’s not possible that there is not an impact. I know that’s a double negative, but there’s got to be some relationship there.
John: Yes. There is a relationship. At this point, most of it is what is called scientifically speaking ‘Anecdotal’. An anecdotal evidence has in our paradigm which is basically materialistic been relegated to some closet somewhere that we don’t really open or a bureau drawer that’s lowered down that is too far to stoop to, because we depend upon double blind studies.
In terms of the influence of the movement of planets, even the cycles of the moon, we can’t have a double blind study. There’s no way of doing it. We can’t have a group that doesn’t have the moon affecting them, and a group that does. We can have a group that denies the moon will affect them, but that’s very different, so we can’t really do a study within our paradigm, our scientific paradigm that satisfies those questions.
From years of working with people, I know that when there are certain transits of particularly major outer planets to the personal planets, or to your ascendant or your descendant, there are changes that are pushed. Now, we can respond to them or we can resist them.
Dr. Lisa: I want to back up …
John: Sure.
Dr. Lisa: I have studied a little bit of astrology not a ton, and so I’m familiar with things like transits and ascendants and descendants. I think a lot of people think about the 12 major signs of the zodiac, and in fact, now I believe it’s possible there’s 13. There’s a new sign that maybe has been put out there as a possible new sign, but what you’re saying is it’s not as simple as that.
John: In terms of the 12 signs, we look again at those points, they’re right on the border, it’s called a ‘Cusp’, so that say the 21st of January. That’s a cusp point. It’s partly Capricornian and it’s partly Aquarian. The people born say on the 21st of January share both qualities. The Capricornian quality is wanting things grounded, real, solid, there’s a very strong success orientation, responsibility in the outer world, and then the Aquarian energy that says, “I’m just going to fly off a little to the left field and explore something that doesn’t actually fully relate to the field that I’m really grounded in.” There’s an expansion of the Capricornian energy that tends to be a little limited by its relationship, its close relationship to the Aquarian energy, so that a person born say on that date stands with one foot in Capricorn and one foot in Aquarius. It’s a balancing act.
People that are solidly in one sign to some extent have it easier because they don’t have to do quite the same sort of up on some of this and some of that and how do I synthesize that within myself.
Dr. Lisa: I had you do my chart before we sat down to have this interview because I am so interested in this, and I’m born on January 19th, so that’s not quite on the cusp.
John: Yes, you’re very close. You’re in the last two degrees, I think I’d have to look at that year, the last two degrees of Capricorn. You’re sharing some of that Aquarian energy already.
Dr. Lisa: Then I have my daughter who is born on the 25th of January.
John: She may really … she may be three degrees or four degrees of Aquarius. I’d have to look at the ephemeris again. An ephemeris, a friend of mine jokes that an ephemeris is a dog that you keep in the cellar and you feed live rats to. It’s actually a book with all symbols and numbers that we, astrologists use to see where the planets are in any one time. Now, that’s when I at age 24 began working with astrology. That’s what we had. We had to do all the mathematics ourselves. Now, there are computer programs. All we do is we throw in the name, the date, the city or town, and the time of birth. Within less than 10 seconds, the whole chart is done. It’s much, much easier so that then the astrologer can actually sit and work with the chart without spending half an hour or 45 minutes doing all the mathematics.
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Dr. Lisa: We started with the 12 signs of the zodiac and then you told us about people who are on the cusp, and now you’re getting into different degrees and different years, be in different things and where you’re born, it means something different too, so it’s already starting to get complicated and you’re not even very far into what it means to read somebody’s chart.
John: Yes. The place we’re born really has to do with what is called the ‘Ascendant’ and the 12 houses. There are 12 signs but those are also related to the houses. The houses are descriptions of life experience, the various essential ways we move through existence.
The first house for instance is how the public the world sees us, and how we mostly unconsciously present ourselves to the world. For instance, I have Aquarius rising. I have it right on the cusp so I’m partly Capricornian, partly Aquarian. People with the Aquarian energy see me as very intellectual.
An actual fact hiding behind that is a Cancer moon and a Cancer Venus that are very, very full of feeling. That doesn’t appear immediately. The second house for instance has to do with our values, what we hold dear. Those values can extend anywhere from money to qualities of ethics, to fairness, to issues of how we relate to one another. The third house is the Gemini house. The second house is a Taurus house.
There was a period that I had a farm up north in the Netherlands, and in the next plot so to speak, there was a bull. Bull is in the house of nowhere, there are boundaries, they have clear sense of boundaries, the field is fenced, and that’s very Taurian. Then you go to Gemini, and Gemini said, “I’m going to look at this, and I’m going to look at that, and I’m going to look at this, and I’m going to be all over the place,” and all sorts of ideas. We can go, that’s the third house.
Somebody for instance with a Capricorn natal sun sitting in the third house has a very, very different quality of Geminian energy than somebody with say a Libran sun. Libra is the sign of relationships. The Capricornian energy just says, “All right. I’m going to look at a lot of ideas, but I have to know that they work, that they’re solid, that they can be put into practice, that they are useful to the public.”
Somebody else will say a Libran sun in the third house will say, “Oh, there are all these possibilities for multiple relationships with all sorts of different people. I wonder where I’ll go next.” It’s a totally different energy field, so that when we come to reading a person’s chart, the astrologer really has to look at several different factors.
What’s easy as we open up that Portland Daily Sun for instance, and we say, “Okay. I’m a Virgo and we read Virgo,” but the little ditty for the day that describes what a Virgo or a Gemini or a Leo is going through is extremely surface primarily. Secondly, those astrological readings in newspapers are based on the position of the moon with the assumption that your sun sign is in the first house, so they just are not accurate. You can throw all of that out and if you really want to know how your chart is working for you or how you are working against your chart, I really want to emphasize that.
One needs to either learn how to read a chart oneself, there are a lot of books in that area or have the assistance of somebody who has been doing this for years and years. How we prevent ourselves from living our basic map of consciousness is I think really basic to most of our lives. We all get conditioned. We’re told, “This is so. This is so. This is the paradigm you lived by. These are the precepts that you follow.” We get that from our parents, our aunts and uncles, our grandparents, our schools, for those who are raised in any sort of religious household, the priest, the ministers, the rabbis, the imams all of those are bringing to bare on us, their particular ways of living. We absorb those when we’re young.
Often, those have nothing to do with the map of energy, and we’re really talking about an energy field that affects how we respond personally. A lot of it has nothing to do with that at all so that many, many people live their lives out behind a curtain of not knowing.
I often like to describe astrology as a wonderful process of pulling back the veil and saying, “Oh.” I can remember working for one man who after 45 minutes, a big tall guy, and he was 6’4 or 6’5, strongly built, he’d been very successful, and he started to cry which was a bit of a surprise to me. He’d looked at me after he’d sobbed to what he said, “All my life, I’ve been struggling with that and trying to push it away.” He said, “Now I can feel that’s just there. That’s just part of me,” so that as a tool, this allows people to look behind their systems of conditioning and begin to say, “Oh. That whole idea I had about how I should live, that doesn’t necessarily come from me. That comes from outside me. What is truest to my own self? What is closest to …” and this is where the work really gets very, very deep. “What is closest to my own heart, and what are some of the lessons, the learnings that I need to do about my own state of consciousness in order to go free?”
Dr. Lisa: You’re saying this not only as somebody who works with the spiritual astrology, but also as somebody who is trained in psychology, and also as an individual, yourself. You have gone through these learnings and these experiences, and you’ve struggled with these things firsthand. You’ve known what it was like to be born into a certain family and to go in a certain direction, and then realize that wasn’t the direction that perhaps you more ultimately meant to go in, and you’ve gone in a lot of different directions.
John: Yes.
Dr. Lisa: Tell me, how did that happen? What was your born, you’re a little Johnny McLaughlin?
John: Little Johnny was supposed to become a jurist, a lawyer, a judge. That was the program. It was very clear. I will never forget at 19, one of my father’s colleagues on the supreme court in Massachusetts is looking at me and saying very emphatically that I was supposed to live according to the plan and the program, that I would be sorely disappointed if I didn’t. That is not the case that I had been sorely disappointed.
Something in me got permission fairly early to explore areas of my being that were not characteristic of the kind of family that I was raised in which had a lot of education, I mean generations of education and very intellectually positive parents, and there were certain expectations.
Underneath particularly in my mother, there was this ripple of a little stream of, “You’ve got to explore yourself.” She had an aunt and uncle and two first cousins who spent a lot of time in Zurich being analyzed by Jung. I can remember asking Brookie who is one of the two sons on the back court to the house in Bailey Island, I guess I was 10 or 11, “Did anything change?” Brookie said, “No. No. No.” I’m more used to my neurosis than I was and I can remember sitting there, looking out over the ocean thinking, “There’s something wrong with this picture. If nothing changes, then why bother?” That family along with two others were instrumental bringing Jung to Bailey Island in the ‘30s and he gave several lectures. The family still has videos, movies of his walking into library hall which my great Uncle Perry designed and giving lectures.
I thought, “If nothing changes, then why bother?” Something in me started asking those questions and started reading Freud and Jung, and has an undergraduate intended major in psychology. It was of department at Oberlin that ran rats with experimental psych. By the middle of my sophomore year, I had not taken a psych course. Bed Adler was my adviser who said, “You got to start. You’re getting rather late in the game.” I went out in the Tappan Square and looked around. The most beautiful building on campus was the art building and I went and declared an Art History major. That was one of the smartest things, this wet behind the ear kid could have done, because he came in touch with not only beauty but the spiritual. That opened up all sorts of levels of consciousness.
When I was in grad school at Harvard studying art history, that’s when I started studying astrology because I knew there was somehow more to this whole field than the whole field of art as well as psychology, as our humanness. Somehow, the study in art history led me to a grasp of all. There’s something about the human condition that is so profound, and the images that really are still etched in my being like the image of the face of Zuccone which is one of the great statues on the outside of the Duomo in Florence. All of the pathos and the feeling, and the sadness and the wonder and the awe of being human in this extraordinary mystery, the face of Nicodemus in Rembrandts descent from the cross , my God, and with looking up at his dead savior. Those images said so much to me, and I knew that I had to expand way beyond art history in order to start touching that in myself and I did a four-year training analysis with our Harvard psychiatrist who was in Newton during the latter part of my 20s. Then, it went further and further and I got a lot of all my training in the field of therapy has been outside the walls. It’s a non-academic.
I finished the academic degrees in architectural history and philosophy, but all the real exploration of consciousness needed to go beyond the standard understanding of ego because we can see this in charts where we’re caught by the ego mind. The ego mind is very easily the mind that is conditioned, conditioned by external circumstances, conditioned by all of the influences we had when we’re young. That conditioning doesn’t allow us to explore where our true being, I often refer to the soul where our souls are wanting to take us. Where our souls wanted are often wanting to take us is not exactly where we’re conditioned to go.
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Dr. Lisa: When you and I had a conversation about laughter on one of the early shows, you talked about the religious background of your family, and how that didn’t exactly match up with what became your own spiritual sense.
John: I hope nobody is offended who listens to this, but at age seven or eight, my mother with wonderful wave of her hands would say, “The Christ crazes on the way out. The Christ crazes on the way out.” My father would say, “It’s all hypocrisy,” so that I had the fortune on one hand to be raised with a highly skeptical attitude toward religion. That’s one hand.
The other hand is that it gave me freedom to explore. I refused to go into high school, a boarding school that was strongly Anglican and wound up going to a Quaker School. Every morning for 15 minutes, all of the students sat in one big hall and we were silent for 15 minutes. Will you imagine what 14, 15, 16, a bunch of guys silent for 15 minutes was like? I mean talk about shuffling the feet, the restlessness.
For me, it was a real eye-opener because occasionally we’d go to Quaker meeting, and the meeting house in Providence was right on the grounds of Moses Brown. Those hours opened a possibility of something that I had not seen in my upbringing. That is part of what took me on another path, a really deeply spiritually path. People think, “Spiritual airy-fairy.” I often slam the two words together, ‘New age’, drop the capital letters, slam them together and you know what it rhymes with? There’s a lot of ‘New Age’ out there that really is not grounded. To be spiritual really means to be here, and to be awake and to be alert and to be present without all the layers of the mind, that’s the real spiritual process. You see it in Buddha, Buddhism. The writings of Pema Chodron are absolutely amazing, because I keep bringing us no matter what we’re going through to the present and into our hearts. You can see this in an astrological chart. You can say, “Oh. This person’s soul is needing to move in this direction.”
Here is where they’re stuck. In the work that I do individually with people, I help them look at where they’re stuck and where they have tremendous gifts. Often, we’re oblivious to the gifts that have been given us which as somebody who counsels people, I get so frustrated by. I’m young and I look really [inaudible 00:36:52]. “You haven’t seen that gift in yourself?” It’s such a surprise because if the gifts that we have have not been once that have been reflected to us from outside, we’ll often miss them, but they’re energetically set up. Our personalities are set up for many of the gifts that we have that we don’t even see, but they’re also set up for the challenges. In reading a chart, I can almost always say, “This is where your essential being, your soul, your heartfulness is wanting to go. What are you doing about that? Are you listening to that?”, because to use that image again, astrology is tearing away the veil that we all carry within ourselves that doesn’t let us connect with our own being. That connection with our own being makes all the difference in the world.
I mean in often, what we do is we betray ourselves. That’s a strong word to use, but we can see it in any form of counseling and particularly with an astrological chart how we betray ourselves. You’re not hearing this. This is a gift and you’re not letting yourself feel that.
For me personally, doing an astrological chart, there’s a lot of mind stuff and information and mind work. It’s really a process of just opening my heart to a person and saying, “Oh, here. Please look. Just be real about who you are.” Now we go back to laughter.
The more we can see ourselves, the funnier we become. It’s a gentling process. We can begin to say, “Oh. You mean I’ve been doing that all the years and I don’t really have to?” Then, when the chuckle starts to come, that’s when we start to go free.
The laughter that comes and meditational bring that on as well, that we begin to accept all of ourselves, whatever it is, the shadows, the tough stuff … A lot of people deal with addictions of one sort of another, controlled or not … All of that, we bring home. We say, “Oh. This is all of me. This is part of me. Nothing gets thrown out.” One of the failings I think in a lot of the understanding that exist in western psychology really has to do with the fact that we think we can get rid of something. There’s no way. Please. If this is part of the energy field that we are born with, you need to see it astrologically, then that’s part of what I have to work with. That’s part of the clay that has been given me or the wood that has been given me so that I can create a form that is truly reflective of my own being. That’s an essential part of I think learning to be.
Now what’s interesting, this is a technical point. When Freud came here, the one time he did to lecture at Clark Institute, the initial translations of Freud from the German into English mistranslated the word, ‘Zeal’ which in German means soul, and the American translators translate it as mind so that they radically limited the understanding that became pervasive in western, particularly American psychology to working with the mind, and the mind is only one part of our being. It’s actually that which supports the ego. The mind is always if we can really look at it gently without any judgment, is always trembling because it’s going to be found out that it doesn’t have a real grasp on the truth or the mystery of existence.
I mean, as all of the great spiritual teachers say, we don’t know. We don’t know the future. There’s no way of knowing the future. This is a mystery that we all have to live through, and it is not secure. There’s no way of making it secure. We may be able to build up a huge fortune and live in a big house, and it will still snow and there will still be earthquakes and all the money could be lost, or our wives or our husbands or whomever can walk out on us, or there’ll be a death of a child … None of that is controlled how we respond to it, is really the way in which we either go free or we stayed bound by the mind.
Dr. Lisa: The goal of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour is to help make connections between the health of the individual and the health of the community.
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Dr. Lisa: Are there things that are happening in 2014 astrologically especially January, February, March that people might start to feel?
John: The residue of the transit of Uranus and Pluto is still affecting all of us. There’s no question about that, and there will be an exact square again during 2014. It doesn’t happen in the first three months of the year, but this energy is basically breaking apart old structures. We’re talking about old structures politically, but we’re also talking about the old structures internally, in all of us. We’re going through tremendous change.
Basically, this is a time and I think there’s not anybody who is not aware of the tensions which we’re dealing with. I mean if we look just at our own Washington government, the breakdown in communication is absolutely extraordinary. That’s part of this transit that we’re going through. That is the major one that is influencing us at this point.
There’s a second one because Pieces, Neptune is gone fully into the sign of Pieces, so that for all of us on the planet, we are being in a way encouraged. I even want to say exhorted energetically to opening up on a more spiritual level. That Neptune rules the sign of Pieces so it’s affecting all of us whether we have planets in Pieces or in signs that are related to Pieces by square or sextile or trine. Sextile and trine are easy relationships.
All of us are feeling somehow, “Oh. There must be something more than this strictly material existence,” because as we get older, we begin to realize, “Ho, ho, ho. We’re not going to last forever.” I can remember looking down at my hands 10, 15 years ago and realizing, “Oh, they were becoming a little like my fathers,” which I could remember so vividly as he grew older, and I felt such a grace with that.
If we don’t open to a deeper, higher, whatever adjective one wants to use to mention of our reality, then the changes we go through as we age for instance become more and more terrifying, more and more ones to be avoided, more and more ones to be set away from, consequently endless cosmetics. We now have cosmetics for men to try to stave off the aging process which really is becoming more and more difficult for us because the world that we’re living in, the increased chaos that has no point in it, I think the pachinko game, the Japanese game on the wall, and just the little steel balls flying all over the place. Our lives are more and more disjointed or disjunctive.
It was amazing yesterday, I was up in Brunswick at Wild Oats. Seeing four, they were obviously Bowden students, and I actually checked on that later. They were spending time together, but they were all on their iPhones. I thought, “When I was that age, we sat around and we talked. We talked a lot. We probably talk too much, but we thought we were talking at least about something important or essential to us.”
Now, they may have been texting something essential and important to them, but right there, there were four of them and they weren’t relating. That’s part of this chaos that we’re living in which is more and more dissociative. We can see it often in the charts of young people that one of the issues that they are really having to work with consciously and energetically is, “How do I learn how to relate instead of existing in a solipsistic, in a sort of isolated individuation of self?” I look and I think, “Oh, heavens. They really got so much to learn about that.”
Now, on the other hand, I’ve read studies that indicate that they have capacities in their minds from having played video games that are way beyond those of us who are raised with them, so there are trade-offs. I just wonder, what happens when we no longer can sit down at a table and really talk with one another, because we human beings have to learn how to do that, and the Uranus-Pluto square and the movement of Neptune wholly and completely out of the cusp degrees in the very early part of Pieces. The movement of Neptune fully into Pieces is saying, “We got to own a dimension of our reality that is not just material, is not limited to what we manufacture, what we produce.”
Dr. Lisa: We only have a few more minutes, but I think I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you what happens when you overlay one chart upon another in the case of a parent and a child, in the case of a husband and a spouse.
Say you have two charts, they’re in opposition to one another. Would you ever say to somebody, “Yes, this just is not going to work out for you”, or would you say, “These are your characteristics and you should both know about this because it might be more challenging for you”?
John: I always go for the ladder which is these are the areas of which you have to be really aware where there could be sticky points. You have to be alert to those, but there are two ways of working with two charts. One is to overlay one on the other, and that’s a comparison. Then there’s a second way which is to create a composite, which is to find the midpoints of both charts. That creates a third chart which really is the chart of the relationship. I know two people that had in terms of comparison some wonderful aspects with one another, and some very troublesome ones.
The composite for those two people was made in heaven, but the composite only works if both people are able to step into it. If only one steps into it, then the difficulties, the sticky points and the comparison will be the dominant factor. There’s nothing that can’t be resolved with awareness.
Now, I can remember three or four years ago now, working with the whole family down in South Carolina, by phone because I do phone work. One of the issues that they raised was that their older son was … 13 was a real problem. The father was doing the majority of the upbringing and the discipline and wanted a really close relationship with his son, and the mother had stepped back. There was a daughter in the family, and her relationship with her daughter was closer.
I looked at the comparison between son and the father. It’s not what I would have wished for to put it easily. The comparison between the mother and the son was quite wonderful. I had quite an hour and a half with the two of them explaining to the father exactly what he had to do which was to back off, really step back from the role that he played and to allow the mother to step in to the role of guide and disciplinarian.
A month later, they called me up and they say, “There’s peace in the house. We don’t know what happened.” I said, “Yes you do. You switched how you used your personal energies so that you work better with your son,” and the father, “You got out of the way,” and the mother stepped in. Ever since I have been in touch with them, since then, those teenagers have been incredibly smooth. That’s how you can work in a familial situation. It’s really quite wonderful.
Dr. Lisa: John, how do people get in touch with you?
John: One way is Facebook, because I’m on Facebook and it’s a very easy way to get a hold of me. I don’t have a website and that’s fairly intentional. The other way is by phone which is a 207 area code, 522-4465. Those are the two most direct and easiest ways to get a hold of me, and I’m happy to be gotten a hold of.
Dr. Lisa: John, we could keep talking for hours and hours. I know that. The more I learn about astrology, the more it just falls in line with things that I feel like we know as a society and also that I know personally.
Quantum physics is telling us a lot about the energy of the worlds. We get to look back at teacher Nietzsche and what was going on in Mexico and the astrologers back then.
John: Yes.
Dr. Lisa: It’s interesting to feel these things all coming together. Today, we have to stop, but I really appreciate your coming in and talking to all of us on my birthday as a Capricorn and someone who’s a little bit cuspy that way. I love hearing about things that we know in different ways and things that we can learn about in different ways, and opening our minds and connecting to something more central to ourselves, so I really appreciate your coming in.
Speaking with us today, we have been speaking with John McLaughlin who is a Portland psychologist and spiritual astrologer and many, many other things.
John: Yes.
Dr. Lisa: Thanks for coming in.
John: You’re welcome.
Dr. Lisa: You have been listening to the ‘Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast’, show number 123, ‘Stargazing’. Our guest has been John McLaughlin. For more information on our guest and extended interview, visit ‘Doctorlisa.org’.
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This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our ‘Stargazing Show’. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. Happy birthday to my niece, Eleanor and my daughter, Abby in this upcoming week. I enjoy having you as fellow January babies. May all of you, our listeners have a bountiful life.
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