Transcription of Into the Woods #44
Speaker 1: You are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast recorded at the studios of Maine Magazine in Portland, Maine and broadcast on 1310 AM Portland, streaming live each week at 11:00 AM on wlobradio.com. Show summaries are available at doctorlisa.org. Download and become a podcast subscriber of Dr. Lisa Belisle through iTunes. See the Dr. Lisa website or Facebook page for details.
Speaker 1: The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is made possible with the support of the following generous sponsors: Maine Magazine, Mike Lepage and Beth Franklin at Re/ Max Heritage, Robin Hodgskin at Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, Dr. John Herzog of Orthopedics Specialist in Falmouth Maine, BOOTH, UNE the University of New England and Tom Shepard of Shepard Financial.
Dr. Lisa: Hello, this is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast, show number #44 Into the Woods which is airing for the first time on Sunday July 15th 2012 on wlobradio 1310 AM Portland Maine. Also available on iTunes as a podcast. Today we will be speaking with Lindsey Bourgoine of the Appalachian Mountain Club in addition to John McDonalds of the Maine Warden Service. With me in the studio as always is my co-host Genevieve Morgan the wellness editor for Maine magazine. Hi Genevieve.
Genevieve: Good morning Lisa.
Dr. Lisa: Into the woods is an important topic and we initially thought about doing this as a hiking show, and realized that it doesn’t really matter how you get into the woods whether it’s hiking or paddling a canoe up the stream. It’s just important to get out there especially here in Maine, so this is why Genevieve and I decided to talk about this today.
Genevieve: We did and we have many, many miles and acres of forest land in Maine and its one way that you can exercise outdoors to your activity level. Whether you’re a walker, a runner, a jogger, a mountain biker we have this whole outdoor experience that can really facilitate exercise. As you know exercise is one of the biggest booms to health.
Dr. Lisa: As you know I’m actually not … I mean I love running and I’m not an inside exerciser. This is an important for me especially because it pains me at times to drive by gyms, where I see people looking out the window and running towards nothing. Now I have … anybody who is going to a gym and doing this please do not be offended. I just know that especially in Maine just right down the street you can walk around if you’re in Portland walk around Back Bay that would get you outside. Or you could go to the Audubon preserve in Falmouth.
Genevieve: You bring up a good point Lisa that people don’t really equate a walk around the back cove or a walk in the woods with exercise. Exercise is going to the gym and bearing through a rigorous activity, with everyone is frowning when they’re looking in the mirror and groaning. You have very different idea about what exercise is and how … and it’s actually been proven now that your idea is healthier for people and what is it?
Dr. Lisa: Well you’re pointing me towards this interesting study that is our UNE wellness innovation this week, which has to do with the number of hours of exercise and outside exercise. The fact that there’s a bell curve. Talk to us a little bit about that because this is something you found.
Genevieve: There are many cities coming out now, one was in the Lump city a year ago one was recently at the … I think it’s the sports and fitness college in San Francisco. That shows that moderate exercise improves longevity, and we’re going to be reading about it. I think that this is something that people need to focus on that too little exercise and too much exercise are equally stressful for the body. I know that has to do with free radical and oxidative stress, but maybe you can speak to the actual physiology what goes on with that.
Dr. Lisa: One of the things that happens in our very busy lives is that we kind of get ourselves amped up, to approach whatever it is that we need to approach. To get in there and work hard and we spend time on our computers, we spend time running around, spend time with our children. I mean there’s a lot of sort of adrenaline that we kind of have to force into our bodies. When we exercise, we actually … there actually needs to be … there has to be like a relaxation phase to that. Because it’s kind of like running a marathon and running and running and running, and then at the end of the race just continuing to run some more or not giving yourself time off. The body really needs that activity but it also needs to rest, so exercise needs to accomplish in Chinese medicine we call it yin and yang.
It needs to have a restful phase and it needs to have an active phase. What you’re talking about this bell curve is very much a Chinese medicine idea that’s been around for thousands of years. That not enough means you just … you don’t have enough yang activity you don’t have enough sort of energy active energy. Too much exercise means you’re not getting enough yin activity. You’re not getting that very inward peaceful relaxation state. This is what all the studies are showing now is that, people who exercise too much and end up having really, really low body fats and stressing their joints and their muscles. I mean their longevity is impaired, but people who don’t exercise enough they get overweight have laxity in their muscles and their longevity is impaired as well.
Genevieve: I think your point about getting out into nature and why you like actually run a route around, has to do with adherence to exercise. That going to the gym and putting yourself through the paces can actually have the physiological changes that you might want. The tendency is you’re going to get bored of it and you’re not going to want to keep doing it. I think our point with this show is to say you can do it moderate exercise everyday for the rest of your life at whatever is you’re at is much better than just sign up for an aerobics class for six weeks and then dropping it. Do something that you really love and chances are if it’s outdoors especially in summer in Maine you’re going to get hooked and you’re going to want to do it all the time. That’s probably more healthy than the up and down, the rollercoaster.
Dr. Lisa: It is really … I completely agree with that and somebody who just as I said hates to exercise indoors. I want to be very clear that when people exercise in a gym and my … actually my practice it has a gym right next to it. I very much believe in gyms and in working out and having that ability to do things inside. Especially in Maine where it’s snowy and cold. I think that’s really great, because that can be a good routine for some people. I just think it has to be balanced because in addition to sort of what it does for your body there’s also mental and emotional well-being. There’s also an air quality issue, I mean how many times have you gone to the gym in the middle of the winter or even in the middle of the summer? Then right next to the guy who’s coughing and sneezing and … it’s a really … it’s just that can’t be good for your body and some people don’t wide down those bars.
Janeveve: That’s right.
Dr. Lisa: That’s right, or as if you go outside there’re still people coughing and sneezing but they’re not necessarily next to you, they’re not necessarily putting their hands on things you’re going to touch. There’s that health thing then there’s the mental and emotional well-being piece. I’ve been part of the Maine magazine in 48 hours project that’s been going on since January. Where we go out and we go out into the world and the people from the staff and the writers, and also I just happened to be invited a long to do this. We’ve gone out on boats, we’ve gone out on bikes, we’ve gone out hiking, and it’s a very different experience. It really tunes you into the place that you are visiting in a way that you just can’t get tuned in if you don’t get out there and do it.
Genevieve: Well I realized that the Body Architect, which is the gym that ajoins your practice, they have built their facilities so that the view when you’re working out in the gym is expansive. I think there’s almost what a 240 degree view, so even though you might be in the woods you’re actually looking at what fields and water and the woods. That’s pretty neat. I mean that’s kind of a great combination.
Dr. Lisa: They have a deck that opens out onto a roof so they do yoga and Qigong out there. The owners and founders Steven and Tony Anderson, and Steven Anderson actually was on our late show last fall. They very much believe in the importance of bringing the outside in. Bringing what you’re doing on the inside out into the world and they’re very much about energy. It’s all … I think what we’re doing is fine tuning our ability to stay active and well in this world and to increase our healthy life bands.
Genevieve: Well certainly our guests today are going to help us do that.
Dr. Lisa: That’s absolutely right. We’re going to have a great time talking with Lindsey Bourgoine of the Appalachian Mountain Club and also John McDonalds of the Maine Warden Service as they really give their take on going into the woods. I think it’ll be a very helpful show, for those of you who are just looking for that little bit of inspiration to get out there and enjoy Maine or wherever it is you’re listening from.
Speaker 2: The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is pleased to be sponsored by the University of New England. As part of our affiliation with University of New England we offer a segment we call wellness innovations. This week’s wellness innovation comes from the New York Times; moderation is a sweet spot for exercise. For people who exercise but fret that they really should be working out more, new studies maybe soothing. The amount of exercise needed to improve health and longevity is modest and more is not necessarily better, that is the message of the newest and perhaps most compelling of the studies. Presented recently at the annual meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine in San Francisco, in which researchers at the University Of South Carolina School Of Public Health and other institutions, comb through the health record of 52,656 American adults.
The researchers found that running in moderation provided the most benefits. Those who ran one to 20 miles per week at an average pace of about 10 or 11 minutes per mile in other words jogging reduced their risk of dying during the study more effectively than those who didn’t run. Those who admittedly few ran more than 20 miles a week and those who typically run at a pace swifter than seven miles an hour. This modest amount of exercise led to an increase of on average 6.2 years and a life span of male joggers, and 5.6 years in women. There’s further confirmation of that idea and the findings of a large study of exercise habits published last year in the Lancet
Which showed that among a group of more than 416,000 Taiwanese adults, 92 minutes a week of moderate exercise like walking, gentle jogging or cycling increased life span by about three years and decreased the risk of mortality from any cause by about 14%. In that study those who embarked on more ambitious exercise programs did gain additional risk reduction but the benefits plateaued rapidly, for each further 15 minutes per day of modern exercise that someone completed beyond the first 92, his or her mortality risk fell but by only about another 4%. For information on moderation in exercise as a wellness innovation go to doctorlisa.org. For information of University of New England visit une.edu.
Speaker 1: This portion of the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast has been brought to you by the University of New England, UNE: An innovative Health Sciences University grounded in the liberal arts. UNE is the number one educator of health professionals in Maine. Learn more about the University of New England at une.edu.
Dr. Lisa: On today’s Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast our theme is into the woods, and as part of this we are speaking with Lindsey Bourgoine, who is a Maine policy associate of the Appalachian Mountain Club, so thank you for coming in and talking to us today Lindsey.
Lindsey: Thank you very much I’m excited to be here.
Dr. Lisa: Genevieve Morgan is also excited to be here she’s every week; she’s the wellness editor for Maine magazine.
Genevieve: Yes I am and I have … one of the things on my bucket list is to walk the Appalachian trail so I’m excited to have you here.
Lindsey: Well the AMC manages a lot of the Appalachian Trail but the organization that manages the trails is actually called the Appalachian Trail Conservancy. I will say that the AMC often gets mixed up with that but we do a lot to manage and maintain the trail specifically New Hampshire and Maine. Other regions that of the Mid-atlantics so …
Genevieve: And you run the Huts …?
Lindsey: Something close to the Hut, yeah run the Huts in New Hampshire and we also have lodges here in Maine.
Dr. Lisa: It sounds like it could actually kind of take a lot of different people working on this project, to keep trails open and workable in the state of Maine, can you speak to that somewhat?
Lindsey: Yeah, so just a quick background the AMC kind of focuses on recreation and education and conservation. It’s a very broad organization and we kind of have different focus in those three different sectors that definitely work together. Various kind of this recreation aspect where we do maintain a lot of trails, we have a lot of wonderful volunteers that do that work for us. As well as some professional trail crew and what not, and we do maintain quite a bit of trail in Maine along the AT a lot on the Bigelow’s and the area around Sugarloaf. Then we actually manage and own and operate 125 miles of trail in what we call our Maine woods initiative.
Which is we own 67,000 acres up land of east of Moosehead Lake region most people enter through Greenville or Brownville Maine to get to the park that’s all open public access. We actually have about 10 fulltime staff on the ground up there that work up there in our lodges and on our lands.
Dr. Lisa: Tell me how you yourself got interested in this?
Lindsey: I grow up here in Maine and I’m very proud of that as most Mainers are, and I was really fortunate to be from a family where my father specifically took me outside quite a bit. With the whole family lots of hiking and climbing I climbed Mt. Katahdin and every winter with my dad I started that, when I was 15 so I just did my 10th trip this year. Which was really exciting for me and I feel really lucky I think Maine is a really special state, where there are a lot of different organizations that take so many different folks outside. Have lots of low level, introductory level outdoor experiences for a little cost, I think that’s really important. One of my passions is kind of sharing that with the rest of the state because I think it’s really important that people see that.
And as for the AMC I actually worked in White Mountain Huts all through college, I did that every summer. That was really important to me and that’s kind of where my social group lies or all my hut kid friends, and that was really important to me and I feel very lucky I was able to start working for the AMC fulltime. Do a little bit more of the … less of the guest service, a little bit more of kind of like conservation policy and promoting our lodges and getting kids and families outside.
Dr. Lisa: What are some of the core things you learn as a child growing up in Maine, hiking Mt. Katahdin every winter, what are some of the things that you came away with?
Lindsey: I think being outside is really important and kind of just the mentality that goes with it, I think people that go outdoors are often much more relaxed and kind of in tune with themselves. I think obviously as we see this kind of generation that’s kind of addicted to technology, that it’s more difficult to get people to kind of take a step away from that and connect with nature. Which I think is so important for health and well-being and obviously with obesity rates, but I think the important part and something that I personally believe is as long as the entity is we don’t necessarily need to take the technology away from the outdoors. A lot of people think like … I am a person that would love to live my cell phone at home while I go out hiking.
I also think you don’t have to do that and there are a lot of cool apps these days where you can hold your phone over a plant and it will help you identify it. I think that a way to kind of address getting the next generation outside, is by kind of connecting those things. It’s not scary and it’s not taking away from all the ways that kids that they feel connected.
Genevieve: How accessible is the land in east of Moosehead, I mean is there something that you can drive to and your family and go for the day?
Lindsey: Yeah, obviously we struggle with been far away from populations centers in Maine, so it is quite a trip at about three hours from Portland. There are so many things to do up there and a lot of people really enjoy going up and staying for multiple nights. We own and operate three lodges up there and so folks can stay overnight and, that’s a really great way for some folks that aren’t necessarily accustomed to the outdoors to get acquainted with it. We have everything from a very rustic kind of back-country lodge, to a very new lodge Gorman Chairback that we opened and renovated this spring. That has a sauna and flannel sheet and its pretty cushion and it’s very nice, so if you’re not looking for the camping and the rustic of experience there’s something kind of for everyone up there.
We do also have camping on the property and a lean too, for folks to set a tent in or sleep inside. It’s kind of a multitude of opportunities; it is more of an overnight destination people kind of seem to think that it’s worth travelling a little bit longer. It is all public access land so you can kind of enter the property at any point, and there’s everything from paddling the AMC has a lot of canoes up there on a lot of the remote ponds. Fishing, hinting, hiking camping so it’s kind of a lot of folks head to the White Mountains to our huts and that’s obviously very traditional kind of hiking land. In Maine it’s much more kind of rolling hill that does have the depletion trail does cross out property this year back range. There’s kind of a multitude of different activities that you can do.
Its there’s kind of something for everyone and then the winter it’s not … you can’t drive to the lodges in the winter because of the road. It’s all ski accessible and we’re actually just as busy in the winter as we are in the summer, in terms of people love to ski cross-country lodge to lounge and we have a great service. Where you wear gear pack and they haul your gears, so it’s pretty nice and really reasonable distances in between the lodges all connected by trails.
Dr. Lisa: Give us a little background on the Appalachian Mountain Club?
Lindsey: So as I mentioned we do kind of focus on recreation, education and conservation. Our mission is about kind of promoting the understanding and protection of the environment near mountains, lakes, trails so …
Dr. Lisa: How long ago did this come into being, what was the history?
Lindsey: Yeah, in the late 1800s there was more of a group of folks from Boston who became really interested in helping to protect the outdoors. They specifically loved the region of the White Mountain in New Hampshire, so in the 1870s they formed the Appalachian Mountain Club. Decided to kind of to start protecting the land, so it started more or less kind of as an outing club and I think we are the oldest conservational recreational organization in the country. I think one example of that important is I work on a lot of policy issues, I’m in the Maine state quite a bit. When I testify on a bill or when I share information on behalf of our members, it’s so important to have that recreation aspect in perspective in the conservation kind of argument if you will.
We’re not going up there are saying we want to conserve this land for just to conserve this land. We’re saying we want to conserve this land or protect the environment, because we are people who enjoy the environment we go out there and we use it. We’re stewards of the land and we hike and paddle and we hunt and we fish, I think that’s really important that we kind of tied recreation and conservation together. Of course with that environment education and outdoor education seems like a very important pillars, so we’re doing a lot of programming for kids and families as well.
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Dr. Lisa: What are some of the things that you’re working on from a conservation stand point?
Lindsey: Here in Maine I work on a variety of conservation issues, I work a lot in the Mahoosic region which kind of spans the border or Maine and Hampshire. There’s an initiative there that about 10 different conservation organizations from state, federal and regional organization that all really care about the protection of that area. The importance for kind of economic development and a recreational economy, so we do a lot of work and just try to communicate; a lot of the work I do is in collation extremely important. I would say almost all sectors of the world to kind of communicate with the other interested in doing what you’re doing.
When there’s a policy issue that we’re concerned about in the state there’s a variety of organizations that will come together over that issue to work on it. A good example of that is the landmains future program which funds conservation, working farms, working waterfront lands in the state. Basically a group like a land trust or even the AMC we actually did apply for funding when we built trails on our 67000 acres, for some assistance in terms of funding and that’s state funding. We just passed bond through the legislature that will go to the voters in November, to see if they will like to support adding some funding to that program to support more projects.
Genevieve: You too are a lifetime Mainer so you I don’t need to speak to about this. One of the reasons Lisa and I wanted to do this show in the middle of the summer, is that Maine experiences a huge growth in tourism. It’s always east of the turnpike, but the Appalachian Mountain Club really focuses and there so much in the rest of the state west of the Turnpike. Those of us who live here know that, but what how do you go about helping people discover that whole other part of the state?
Lindsey: Well I think first of all we were really excited about going to the Piscataquis county, it’s beautiful area we feel really fortunate to have found this wonderful property there. There’s a lot of … we’ve done a lot of work kind of local outreaching make sure that we’re engaging, and working with the local population. We work with the Piscataquis Tourism Development, the Piscataquis tourism authority and Piscataquis Economic Development Council. As well to try to work on that, but I think it is difficult as you said to try to promote kind of what isn’t along the 95 Turnpike corridor in Maine. A lot of folks that have had kind of AMC destination experiences traditional, experiences in the hut maybe folks that have gone to the huts for a long time that are really looking for something new.
It’s kind of a bit about capturing the audience and encouraging them to make the trek, and we found that seems to be for the most part. I think they are many organization in Maine that are doing such wonderful things, wonderful programming outside. Maine Huts and Trails is doing great things and they care about region building, more Huts and trails and I think kind of adds the publicity as a whole gross for the state. That we’re kind of become more present, but I think that we’re really excited to be there and we’re hoping that we’re bringing a lot of people into that area as well.
Dr. Lisa: What inspires you personally to continue to do this work?
Lindsey: As I said I feel really fortunate to have grown up in Maine and to have been the person that was taken outside by their family. Kind of the more people I meet from urban population center as in other folks my age, they weren’t where that same opportunity. I think that’s really important and so trying to figure out ways that I can kind of engage the most people, in any outdoors and kind of bring that positive first time experience to folks. That’s what kind of gets me up and going everyday and I think that’s really important. Through my job I’d also say that I really been inspired by the amount of collaboration that’s kind of present in Maine, and I think that’s really unique to Maine. I think that in other states aren’t as many organization kind of working together and collaborating I think there’s a little bit more of competition mentality.
As we are a regional organization we have seen that in some of our other regions, but in Maine people really want to work together and I think that’s really important. I think if we’re really interested in collective impact and change in terms of getting more Mainers outside, that’s what we need and that’s how to accomplish that. That’s an inspiring as well to see people that are really excited to work together.
Dr. Lisa: Genevieve and I both went to Bowdoin and when we were going through they were really getting a reputation as having a great environmental education opportunity for their students. I see more and more people in their 20s and 30s that are really dedicated to environmentalism, do you see that and if so why so you think that’s taking place?
Lindsey: I think it’s definitely been brought to the forefront in terms of younger people think; a lot of folks who go to college will have kind of a traditional college kind of pre-orientation. That takes place in the outdoors that’s one way to get folks outside, but I think it’s just kind of becoming more of a popular thing more of an accepted thing that it is important. Environmental education has been kind of coming more to the fore front in school curriculum as well as kind of in a national front. There’s been some legislation that those who are trying to push nationally for the No child left inside Act. That kind of recognizes for the first time the words environmental education from a legal standpoint, so I think there’s a lot of progress there and a lot of more understanding on the importance and health benefits of getting kids back outside.
We call it nature deficit disorder, and I think that now becomes more popular more organizations are really interested in getting kids hooked outside. I think it’s always been something now all of us know that we feel good about going outside, and we feel happier we love as much anxiety and we’re not as depressed. Those things I think it’s kind of been a little bit more scientifically proven if you will, and brought to the fore front that yeah look at all these studies. Like it’s healthier when kids around dirt they have less allergies and what not. I think that kind of that being brought to the fore front has allowed kind of some more of the development of environmental and outdoor education programs.
Genevieve: It’s also for the most part free it doesn’t take a lot of gear to go up and take a walk in the woods.
Lindsey: You’re right and that’s something we try to promote, I think a lot of times a barrier to getting outdoors is gear and is equipment. I think we’re really fortunate to have businesses like LL Bean in the state, who do so much to donate gear to different organizations. The Bureau of parks and land certainly department of conservation now has multiple gear trailers as this means winter sport center and they bring them around. To try to let kids use that but I think for me one of the important things and for the AMC is to let people know that, you don’t have to gear up and you don’t have to do everything to get outside. You don’t even have to get in a car to go outside, I think that’s really important not to tell people that they need to get in the car and drive to the outdoors. Going out in your own backyard in your flip-flops is just fine.
Dr. Lisa: Lindsey how do people find out more about the Appalachian Mountain Club?
Lindsey: Here in Maine we do have an office in Portland and an office in Greenville, our website is outdoors.org. We also have a chapter of volunteers in Maine that’s very active we’re over 4000 AMC members in Maine, and they do over 100 trips a year all kinds of different hiking, biking, skiing trips. Most of them are free and that website is amcmaine.org, and that’s a really great group to get involved in if you’re looking for kind of introductory level experience. Then they also do a lot of different kind of outdoor trainings, wilderness trainings so if you’re not necessarily comfortable in the outdoors you can kind of learn about that. They also do a great variety kind of evening talks and potlucks where you can learn about different people’s experiences.
So if necessarily going outdoors isn’t the first things that you want to do leaning about it can be.
Dr. Lisa: Great well we’ve been speaking with Lindsey Bourgoine, who is a Maine policy associate with the Appalachian Mountain Club. We’ve really enjoyed having this conversation and we hope that people will get out, into the woods.
Lindsey: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: A chronic ache, sleepless nights, a feeling of something being not quite right. Treat the symptoms with traditional medications, feel better for a little while and continue with your busy days. But have you ever stopped to consider the, ‘what,’ that’s at the core of a health issue? Most times it goes much deeper than you think and when you don’t treat the root cause, the aches, the sleeplessness and not quite right come back. They don’t have to; you can take a step towards a healthier more centered life.
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Dr. Lisa: Today’s as part of our, Into the Woods show, we’re interviewing John McDonalds who is a corporal at the Maine Warden Service. Thank you for coming in today and speaking with us John.
John: My pleasure thank you for having me.
Dr. Lisa: I have Genevieve Morgan next to me the Wellness editor for Maine magazine.
Genevieve: Hi John, I’m wondering how many miles you walk in a day if you’re out there on the job?
John: It’s going to be boring if you asking me that because I have an office job, but if you were to ask the warden in northern Maine he would probably could be measured in miles. For me it’s mostly walking from my truck and the miles are put on in the truck so …
Dr. Lisa: Well let’s talk about how you got to be a warden and what is the Maine Warden Service?
John: Well the Maine Warden Service is the nation’s oldest conservation law enforcement agency, we were established in 1880 and we have grown into a fairly complex agency responsible for many things. First and foremost I guess is what we’re most commonly known for, is special wildlife enforcement, recreational vehicle law enforcement and search and rescue. Anyone lost or missing in the woods. So it’s a complex job we also are state law enforcement officers so we have the same authorities as the state police. We concentrate on off road law enforcement.
Dr. Lisa: How does one become a warden?
John: Well actually we’re hiring right now and I get that question a lot I’m also the recruiter for the department. It is a complex testing system that takes about six months from sending an application and taking physical fitness exams and different things. It involves written exams, oral boards, practical exams making sure that people are that we’re hiring have knowledge of firearms and outdoor equipment. It essential that they are people that hunt and fish to some degree actually to a very high degree, that they are comfortable in the outdoors. It’s one thing we’ll want, applicants coming through us, the first time they’ve handled the shot gun to be in our interview.
We need to have them to be fairly experienced, there’s a swim test and a whole host of things, a polygraph examination and a psychological exam. An exam with the doctor and this takes about six months time to complete.
Dr. Lisa: Isn’t there a training program that one goes through?
John: Yeah, after that six months of hiring process there’s about well that’s exactly 18 weeks, that people that we are hiring go to the police academy. They go with all of the other police officers in the state, including deputy sheriffs and Portland police state police. Everyone goes to that one academy when game wardens graduate from that they continue on the, to the warden academy which is an additional 12 weeks. We get fairly extensive training.
Dr. Lisa: Do you find that there are challenges with different groups of people wanting to do different things in the same place, the hunters and then you have the recreational walkers, how do you manage that?
John: There can be conflicts most people recreate on private land whether it’s for hunting or snowmobiling or ATVing or hiking whatever. We really encourage and promote people accessing land with permission, and treating land like it’s their own. I hate to sound cliché but that’s the way it is. We are very fortunate in the state of Maine to have the open land and the private land that we do, and in many states that’s very different. You can generally and a lot of states allow recreational vehicle activity on their land, or recreational activities. Generally you have either pay a fee or I know there’s a process by which you would access that land but it’s different in Maine. I think we sometimes take it for granted that just because the land says no trespassing that it’s free to do as you please.
We encourage you to knock on doors and find out who the land owners are to keep that relationship a good one. There are conflicts whether it’s you know during hunting season or recreational vehicle use. People with snowmobiles and operating too close to homes with loud exhaust pipes that annoy people, at two in the morning when they go by I mean there are conflicts that we manage. We anticipate them when the season comes and we’re kind of ready for that, but there are conflicts for sure.
Genevieve: When you’re out there when one is out there camping or hunting or walking, and one of you guys comes strolling out of the woods. What is it that you’re doing what are you checking and how are you preserving the wilderness and safety?
John: Well we are essentially protecting Maine we’re … the insurance I guess so to speak for people that come to Maine or live in Maine enjoy the outdoors. We are looking to be sure that people are in compliance with the law, that they’re not for a hiker I think you use as example or a camper. We’re probably checking a camper in conjunction with maybe the fishing activity if they’re camped on the lake or maybe it’s hunting season or maybe they’re just remote campers in their canoeing or boating. We’ve interrupted them or encountered them during their trip 200 mile canoeing trip or something, but we’re looking for compliance of Maine’s outdoor laws.
To be sure that they’re treating the the land as it’s supposed to not leaving behind a bunch of litter. Or operating their boats safely, have their life jackets and their fishing license if they’re doing that type of thing. That’s what we’re doing and it changes with the seasons, that’s for sure.
Dr. Lisa: Are there specific characteristics about the Maine wilderness that bring people from, all over the country and really all over the world to experience our outdoors?
John: I think for sure there is, we are a unique state where we have a coastline that’s 3000 plus miles long I believe. A mountain system mountain trail system and lakes and the leaves that change and snowmobiling, we have all kinds of things that other states don’t. Or they may have pieces of it but we have it all so to speak, a lot of people refer to Maine mini Alaska, and we have a very unique outdoor recreational opportunities, the native Maine wild brook trout is exclusive to Maine now. The Maine Moose hunt is a very popular hunt that brings people from all over the world, and the lower 48 is hard to find the resources that you find in Maine and we’re lucky to have it.
People travel and by the thousands up here anyone visiting the Kittery Toll right now, you’re going to see boats and ATVs and campers streaming in from all over the place to come here to play. We’ve got the best playground and most people know that’s what drives our economy.
Dr. Lisa: Then yet I believe that our culture we’re experiencing what people are calling nature deficit disorder. There’s actually there’s a book called ‘The Last Child in the Woods’ so despite the fact that we’ve all these people that are coming from places to be Maine. We know that people are in general kind of heading away from nature, going towards computers and going towards media. What have you seen to be the impact, in your own family in your own life of this sort of thing happening?
John: Well I have a daughter that’s seventeen months old; she’s not yet at the stage where she is getting influenced by other kids in school with electronic devices and things. It’s something that we in my family she doesn’t watch television, I think if she’s watched 10 minutes of television I’d be surprised. In my family the influence certainly is going to be geared towards other things that will occupy our time. In general we still check a lot families that are boating or hunting or whatever, and they have small children with them. Whether I’ve seen a particular deficit disorder I don’t know, but it does seem to me like it wasn’t like it was when I was a kid.
Attention is been diverted to different things now like electronic devices, when I was a kid playing baseball and riding my bike, playing with the Tonka truck in my yard to me I don’t know we were little. That was what everyone was doing in my neighborhood and now it’s I don’t know, iPhones and the different electronic devices that I think can hold children’s attention. Personally I think it is an issue that if someone can’t spend their time idle for an extended period of time, I think it’s a little bit of an issue. If you have to have some diversion that’s if you can’t be away from your Facebook account or your telephone for an hour without having an anxiety attack I think it’s an issue.
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Dr. Lisa: We have an influx of people who don’t know the regulations in our state, and who maybe spending a lot of time indoors or desk or on their computers. They come in the middle of the summer or in the middle of whatever … we’re in summer let’s say summer. They think they know what can be done on the water and in the mountains and in the woods, but it actually can put them at risk and you were saying one of your jobs is search and rescue. How did people do things safely in the Maine wilderness or what are the challenges there?
John: Well they have to educate themselves on the laws first of all; we have a unique radio station to us when they enter the state of Maine. It’s based on the seasons and it gives people kind of a heads up, at least coming up through the Turnpike to tune in to listen to an overview of what the most common activity. Where to go to find more information about it, first of all people need to take it upon themselves to learn about what they’re for an activity. Vacations are often times spur the moment lets grab the boat and the kayaks and head to Maine, and there maybe a new law laws regarding that type of activity don’t change a lot. Even familiarizing yourself with them is a good thing on a yearly basis, towing skiers for instance there are certain laws regarding towing a skier.
A person having a life jacket on and having an observer in the in addition to the driver, there are some people that come out to … truly may not know that law. Again I hate to sound cliché but not knowing the law really isn’t a great excuse, but you should know about it. A lot of our job is interpreting the law and explaining the law to people that may not otherwise know, and it isn’t a black and white thing if you don’t know the law one you’re going to get a ticket. There’s a lot of investigation that goes into dealing with people and a lot of interviews, and seeing what their level of intent is. A lot of our job is education it isn’t just issuing summons all the time and sometimes it is.
Dr. Lisa: Alright, talking about search and rescue, we had Kate Braestrup on our show back in December, and as you know she’s the Chaplin for Warden Service. She’s written a lot about the loss that is associated and the risk that is associated with going out into the woods. Sometimes being unaware, sometimes been unlucky, what types of things have you seen, that they kind of provided lessons for you as a warden?
John: Well yeah, we have seen a lot game wardens experience a lot of mistakes that other people make, and the outcomes of that. It does make you a little bit more prepared or educated at least from our stand point, on what, how we recreate. Usually well sometimes a lack of planning a lack of thinking about the worst case scenarios. Sometimes it’s truly becoming lost, if its children and we deal with a fair amount of children every year. We’ve about 500 thereabouts search and rescue calls each year and a large majority of them are children, and this time of the year is pretty dangerous. Even if they wander off into the woods which a lot of kids do, behind their homes or whatever it is, if they’re on a hiking trip or fishing trip where they’re unfamiliar.
Dressing during the day time today you’re going to be in probably shorts or a t-shirt, but as soon as the soon as the sun sets it’s going to get very cold like it did last night. Quickly it becomes a safety concern with hyperthermia, so on a situation like that it’s tough to get a head of that. Other than being right on top of your children all the time, which we know is not always possible. For the adults going out and in there … doesn’t even have to be a remote area but an unfamiliar area. Luckily now there are their cell phones and we get a lot of cell phone calls, that I am lost but I don’t know where I am please find me. We try to use coordinates from the phone and cell phone tower to find them, but those that don’t have cell phones it’s a major help for us to know where you were planning to go.
Leaving a note or telling a loved one if they aren’t going with you that hey I’m going to hike, such and such section of the Appalachian Trail today. I plan to be at this spot at this time, so that at least there’s some level of understanding where you are and the expectation that you’re going to return at certain times. People that don’t do that they just go out for the day by themselves or maybe there’s two of them. No form of communication and no indication of where they’re going or when they’re going to return, it’s a little bit of a needle in a haystack when we find their vehicle at a trail head. Not know if they went north or south or how far they plan to go. It’s so much quicker to find people when we have a little bit of information, like yeah I plan to go to summit pond or where …
Genevieve: How big is the wilderness in Maine do you know?
John: Well wilderness to me is uninhabited and untouched by humans; we have very little of that in Maine you probably have to go to Canada and Alaska to find a true wilderness. We have a lot of wild areas for sure and probably as much as any other state in the lower 48 and it’s vast land uninterrupted by roads, and homes and trail roads and those types of things. We have a lot of that and we certainly have a lot of space with trees, so couldn’t tell you how many …
Genevieve: Well and if you get into the woods and you … here and you’re in the middle of that wild area, everything pretty much looks alike to the novice person.
John: Yeah, for sure and it’s easy to get turned around if it’s an cast day when you can’t see the sun, a lot of people they know where the sun rises and the sun sets. If you’re … its afternoon and the sun off to your left well likely that’s to the west, if you know the area and you can walk to the west and find a road that’s good. If it’s over cast or raining or whatever it can be very difficult and you’ll get turned around very quickly.
Dr. Lisa: What percentage of the search and rescue operations result in tragedy?
John: I don’t have that statistic I would say overwhelmingly it’s a good outcome, generally we find the people that we’re looking for. Sometimes it’s we’re looking for people that don’t want to be found, so that is going to have a worse outcome and throw the statistics off a little bit. Because we look for people that have taken their own life, we look for people that don’t want to be found maybe they committed a crime and they’ve run off into the woods. Usually those cases you have an idea of what the outcome is going to be, but I’d say the most of the people we go and look for we find. Whether it’s a live or deceased but most people we retrieve them alive and return to them to their families happy, but I don’t have the statistics on exactly how many.
Dr. Lisa: And when there is a bad outcome how do you deal with that?
John: Well it’s kind of going by the numbers, we have pretty strict protocol on notifications and it’s a very sensitive situation with the family. We actually call Kate Braestrup most situations of Chaplin, and she works as a … liason between her department and the family and helps tremendously. But it’s relaying the facts to the family and the circumstances, and crossing our T’s dotting our I’s and make sure that everything is done appropriately. Getting the message out kind of is a wrap up when that’s done, that this is what took place and these are the things that we should have done. Please be cautiously you don’t do them.
Dr. Lisa: How do you and other wardens deal with this personally and emotionally?
John: Sometimes it can be very tough there are some triggers that sometimes go off, whether it’s you’re investigating someone that’s died it’s … maybe it’s a child and you have one of your own. Or maybe it’s a person with Alzheimer’s then you have a person with, then with your family and it can be tough. Investigating crashes that involve fatality that can be tough and making death modifications and those things. Police work in general involves that not just the warden service, but we see and do things that most people don’t want to do in that case. It’s again doing it by the numbers and doing it professionally and with some high level of care for the family.
Dr. Lisa: It sounds like unbalanced the time that you spend doing things promoting Maine woods, and been having outdoors and educating and interacting. That horror with some of difficulties associated with the job.
John: Oh sure yeah this … my own statistics and our percentage in my mind nothing to do with the departments view I guess. I’d say 95% of the time this job id fantastic, it provides you with great opportunities and … or promoting outdoor, recreational and state I think second to none. We’re kind of the front door department again wardens are and we’re who a lot of people see.
Dr. Lisa: Well so that all our listeners can have a happy outcome when they go into the woods, we’re talking about letting people know where you’re going. Taking a map if you can go to equipment water, food any other tips for our listeners out there?
John: Just use your head try … if you’re going to have a day of fun here in Maine try not to have all your fun on one day. We see that sometimes everybody … some people come up and they try to use … exhaust all their fun in one day because they’re here to play. Use your head, plan, cell phones, tell someone where you’re going, when you plan to return, follow the laws the life jacket laws are there for a reason. We are responsible for retrieving bodies from bottom of lakes and we’ve yet to find one with the life jacket on so …
Dr. Lisa: How about encountering wildlife bear or a wolf or something?
John: Yeah that happens …
Dr. Lisa: What should people do?
John: Well there’s a variety of situations and our encounters with wildlife are typically very good ones here in Maine. It’s understanding that there are wild animals don’t treat them as pets, most commonly right now when dealing with nuisance wildlife. We call them nuisance wildlife but basically it’s wildlife that have young that they’re trying to bring up, and they are out during the day time when people don’t typically see them. Because the mothers are trying to get food and they’re opportunist they like to ragger or in your garbage can in your bird feeders and … it’s understanding that they do that this time of year. We get hundreds if not thousands of calls I have a raccoon in my backyard, I have a red fox in my backyard what do I do?
It’s using your head taking away the temptations that’s bringing them there first of all. Certainly don’t go after them. A bear at a bird feeder, certainly don’t go after them, usually clapping your hands or banging some pots or pans will scare them. They’re much more scared of us than we are them. But … yeah that’s the day and life this time of the year so.
Dr. Lisa: How do people find more of this type of helpful information or find out more about the Maine Warden Service?
John: Well, online is probably the quickest way for people to look that way, and it’s mainefishandwildlife.com it’s mefishwildlife.com. The first anything specific to the warden service it’s mainegamewarden.com, and there’s a whole host of information there with laws rules and tips and things like that for people to look at so.
Dr. Lisa: For those people who are interested in hearing the key briefed up interview that we’ve talked about they can go to our website, and listen to the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast, podcast. The key feature is Kate and also Genevieve Morgan wrote recently an article that is coming out I think in the …
Genevieve: July.
Dr. Lisa: July issue on Maine magazine so people can certainly read more about her version of the Maine Warden Service there. We appreciate you coming in we’ve been talking to John McDonald a corporal in the Maine Warden Service, thank you for talking to us about going into the woods.
John: You are very welcome thanks a lot.
Dr. Lisa: You’ve been listening to the Dr. Lisa radio hour and podcast, show number #44 into the woods, airing for the first time on Sunday July 15th 2012 on WLOB radio 13:10 Am Portland, Maine. Also available via podcast on iTunes today’s guests have included: Lindsey Brooklyn of the Appalachian Mountain Club and John McDonalds of the Maine Warden Service. We thank you for listening and hope that you have gained valuable insights which are applicable to your own lives. We hope click on the link to like us on Facebook visit doctorlisa.org and perhaps let us know what you think. We’ve got many good ideas from our listeners about future skills I’ve already incorporated some of these into what we’ve been doing.
We know that we continue to build a community of people such as yourself that believe in the health and wellness of individuals, families, communities and the world at large. We appreciate you been a part of our world, this is Dr. Lisa Belisle may you have a bountiful life
Speaker 1: The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is made possible with the support of the following generous sponsors: Maine Magazine, Mike Lepage and Beth Franklin at Re/ Max Heritage, Robin Hodgskin at Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, Dr. John Herzog of Orthopedics Specialists in Falmouth Maine, BOOTH, UNE the University of New England and Tom Shepard of Shepard Financial.
The Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and Podcast is recorded in downtown Portland at the offices of Maine Magazine on 75 Market Street. It is produced by Kevin Thomas and Dr. Lisa Belisle. Editorial content produced by Genevieve Morgan, audio production and original music by John C. McCain, our assistant producer is Jane Pate. For more information on our hosts, production team, Maine Magazine or any of the guests featured here today visit us at doctorlisa.org and tune in every Sunday at 11:00 AM for the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour on WLOB Portland Maine 13.10 Am, or streaming wlobradio.com. Show summaries are available at doctorlisa.org. Download and become a podcast subscriber of Dr. Lisa Belisle through iTunes, see the Dr. Lisa website or Facebook page for details.