Transcription of Courage & Resilience #3
Speaker 1: You’re listening to the Dr. Lisa Radio Hour and podcast, recorded at the studio’s of Maine Magazine in Portland, Maine and broadcast on 1310 AM Portland, steaming live each week at 11 AM on WLOB Radio dot come, available via podcast on doctorlisa.org. Here are some highlights from today’s program.
Sharon: Sometimes you’re in and out of doctor’s office in a flash, and I really appreciated that one-on-one time and attention.
Gary Gurney: Oftentimes what’s important isn’t how you necessarily feel on the table, it’s how you feel when you’re moving and walking. We use walking as a diagnostic to try to be able to figure out where strains are in people’s bodies that are holding them back from feeling really free and easy in their movement.
Julie: I was so empowered by the whole thing, how it made me feel, how it made everybody feel, you didn’t even have to have cancer to feel like you were a part of this amazing event.
Speaker 1: The Doctor Lisa radio hour and podcast is made possible by generous donations from the following sponsors, Maine Magazine, Tom Shepard of Ameriprise, Mike LePage and Beth Franklin of Remax Heritage. Whole Foods Market, and Akari Salon.
Lisa: Hello, welcome to the Doctor Lisa radio hour. Today is October 2, 2011, out theme this week is courage, but my interest really lies in the area of resilience. Resilience defined is about elasticity and the ability to bounce back after encountering stress in one’s life. When I finished medical school in 1996 I trained in family and preventive medicine, and over time I spent a lot of hours with patients discussing traumatic events; traumatic in the positive sense, traumatic in the negative sense, but all stressful. What I found was that some patients were far more able to bounce back from issues that had caused difficulties in their lives. The guests on today’s show are primarily going to discuss breast cancer, and its impact on their lives. We also have Gary Gurney who’s going to talk about resilience from his standpoint as certified rolfer. Today I’m joined, as always, by Genevieve Morgan, the wellness editor for Maine Magazine. We’re going to begin our show by discussing food and nutrition.
Genevieve M.: Hi Lisa, as you can tell my resilience has been put to the test this week by voice, so I apologize to all the listeners out there, I’m a little hoarse. It’s a good topic, because it’s cold and flu season, we all need to build our strength and resilience.
Lisa: Well, and we are going to discuss actual cold and flu season topics more in the future, but I thought it was very interesting, you and I were having a conversation about this yesterday, that the foods that are good for colds include things like scallions and ginger and garlic, all very pungent foods. We’ve discussed it on our doctorlisa.org website, and on the bountiful blog before. These foods tend to be very good for the liver, traditional Chinese medicine.
Genevieve M.: Really? I didn’t know that.
Lisa: Yup, and the liver in traditional Chinese medicine is associated with the wood element. The wood element obviously is associated with trees and flexibility. We’ll talk about this also further on in the show. What I wanted to talk about right now were some of these wonderful items that I’ve gotten from the Whole Foods Market here in Portland.
Genevieve M.: They look delicious.
Lisa: A couple of these items actually are ones that we’ve had in part previously. Last week we had some beautiful red rocket peppers from the Little River Farm in Buxton, and some backyard farm tomatoes. This week we have some bull horn and green peppers from Checkerberry Farm in Parkman. I used a bunch of these items in my vegetarian chili that I made over the weekend for my niece Stella’s seventh birthday.
Genevieve M.: That sounds delicious, I just … sometimes when I bring those, the produce home, my kids will want to go pick, berry picking or pick your own. I never know what to do with that, so tell me about the vegetarian chili, it sounds great.
Lisa: Vegetarian chili is a … Well, first of all, let me just back up and say, I eat a predominately plant-based diet, that’s a social and a physical choice, but every so often if meat crosses my path I don’t run in the other direction in fear, which a lot of people tend to do. What I have found to be very successful in my own life, is to create vegetarian-oriented or vegetable-oriented plant based meals to bring with me to events. This chili is something that we taught people how to make in some the cooking classes that I have instructed over the years. It had peppers and carrots and celery, and it’s very toothsome and hardy. Even people who eat meat predominately, they like this chili. Sometimes they say, “Hey, this chili goes well with meat.”
Genevieve M.: Will your kids eat it?
Lisa: My kids do eat.
Genevieve M.: It’s a good way to get vegetables in them then.
Lisa: It is a great way to get vegetables in them. It’s also a great way to supplant some of the meat that’s on ones’ plate, because if you’re going to eat meat, we certainly encourage you to have the locally grown, grass-fed animals. Those tend to be a little more expensive, they tend not to have as many issues with hormones and exposure to other chemicals that are in foods, but again, they are more expensive.
Genevieve M.: Well, I never think about that … Well, actually now I do think about it, now that I’m a wellness editor. When I was growing up I never thought about the fact that cows eat grass, and of course if pesticide is sprayed on grass, then the pesticide is in the cow.
Lisa: Right, and actually what we know is that it’s not the one apple that has pesticides on it that’s the problem, it’s the one apple and the grass that the cow eats, and then the chemicals that you spray on your body. All of these things over time contribute to something called the body burden. This goes back to, actually one of the things we were talking about earlier, which is resiliency, and the body’s ability to, what some people call detoxify, and I really don’t like that term. It intimates that we are toxified and that things are dangerous and polluted, and I don’t really feel that way. I think we all exist within an environment and our bodies really can deal with whatever are thrown at us, as long as we have good enough energy and resiliency. However, as far as minimizing the body’s burden we do things like trying to choose organic foods.
Genevieve M.: I see.
Lisa: I know you’ve had questions about organic foods, we were talking about this yesterday, right.
Genevieve M.: I have had a lot of questions about organic foods, because again, when you’re looking at your pocket book, organic foods … I used to work in a natural foods market, and I was checking out, and always I would get the response that people could not believe how much the grapes cost. “Why do the grapes cost so much?” You go to Whole Foods, you go to different natural food stores, and organic food does seem to cost more. I always try to make the argument with people that you either pay up front with your food or you pay later, down the line, in a hospital bed at the end of your life, but sometimes that doesn’t really go over that well. I’m wondering if you have to make those choices, what are the best foods to eat organic?
Lisa: Well, we have a really good resource in the Environmental Working Group. Every year they put out their dirty dozen, they test foods, they test produce specifically for pesticide residues, and they’re able to tell us which ones are the most contaminated. Again, contaminated, I don’t know, it’s a tough word for me, it’s like toxic, but we’ll just throw that out there.
Genevieve M.: Lisa, just one quick thing. Can you just explain to people, because I as a layman, it is hard to understand that difference between a body burden. We hear a lot about chemicals in the environment, but our bodies are engineered, if you want to use that word, to get rid of toxins, get rid of stressors. That is part of what you said with resiliency. When we’re talking about body burden, we’re also talking about a balance between what you can get rid of and what you can …
Lisa: Right, and a stressed out body has more difficulty getting rid of things that it ingests. The liver is actually, this is this organ that basically cleans your blood as it flows around the body. If you are healthy and you are exposed to small amounts of things that are maybe a little bit less palatable from the bodies standpoint, then your body can, then your liver can take care of all of this stuff.
Genevieve M.: That’s for everybody across the board.
Lisa: That’s for everybody, but if you have a genetic pre-disposition to cancer or to other illnesses or if you have extreme stress going on in your life or if you have extreme burden. If you live next to a nuclear waste site for example, God forbid, then it definitely throws that balance off.
When we’re talking about contaminated foods, and again, contaminated is a words that’s used by the Environmental Working Group, and we will actually put this on our website for people who are interested in the dirty dozen. The foods that come up include … Well, first on the list is peaches, but interesting for this time of year is apples, also is sweet bell peppers, celery, it’s something that we don’t really think about, nectarines, strawberries, and then the list goes on. Spinach and lettuce are actually in here, and grapes, imported grapes have been very notorious for having, for being contaminated with pesticides. The good thing is that for many of these you can peel them, you can take the outer layer off. It doesn’t completely get rid of the pesticides, but it does minimize the amount of stuff that you’re getting.
Genevieve M.: What about washing?
Lisa: Washing, it does help, but the best thing to do in the situation is to take your little list of foods, if you are really trying to be mindful about, and choose the foods that tend to be most contaminated by pesticides, choose those to be your organic foods. Have those be the ones that you spend a little bit of extra money on. Then the ones that aren’t really quite as contaminated, the onions, the avocados, the corn, asparagus, and other things, then you can have those be the conventionally purchased foods.
The other thing that I have here today is a little mini watermelon, which I know you joked with me yesterday, is so perfect for this week’s topic, right.
Genevieve M.: Yes, watermelons, and it is breast cancer awareness month.
Lisa: Yes, right, we amuse ourselves sometimes here on the Doctor Lisa Radio Hour. The nice thing about mini watermelons, it’s interesting, these were available at the Whole Foods Market here in Portland. Watermelons, they’re not going to be a seasonal locally grown food for much longer, but what we know from a traditional Chinese medicine standpoint is that they’re good for the stomach and the spleen, and they tend to be a diuretic. Strangely enough, they are good for weight loss, and we teach this is on our Qigong-based wellness class in my office. When my patients come in and they’re talking about weight, I actually do suggest watermelon. Yesterday you said to me, “Hey, can’t watermelon be grilled?” I said …
Genevieve M.: Yes it can.
Lisa: Yes it can, absolutely. That is the other piece about the food. This is why we talked about vegetarian chili early on, it’s really trying to make food not only palatable but pleasing, trying to find creative ways to be interested in eating it yourself and having your children eat it and bring it with you wherever you go.
Genevieve M.: Well, I think that’s a great idea. I know that I’ve seen a lot of new salad recipes on restaurant menus around locally Portland that are featuring grilled watermelon. I would definitely run down and pick some of that up before it’s out of season.
Lisa: We will talk more about the locally grown foods available at Whole Foods and other places. We’ll talk more in future food segments about things like eating meat and decreasing our body burden and decreasing our pesticide intake. I appreciate your being here with me in the studio Genevieve Morgan.
Genevieve M.: Thank you Lisa.
Speaker 1: The food segment of the Doctor Lisa Radio Hour and podcast is brought to you by Whole Foods Market of Portland, Maine. Whole Foods Market, where you will find the highest quality natural and organic products available. Follow them on Facebook and go to wholefoodsmarket.com to learn more about their whole foods, whole people, whole planet vision.
Lisa: Joining us in the studio today, along with Genevieve Morgan, the wellness editor from Main Magazine, are Sharon Leddy-Smart and Doctor Melinda Molin. Doctor Molin was born and raised in New York City, and completed advanced fellowship training in surgical critical care at Hartford Hospital and then trauma surgery at the University of California, San Diego. In 1996 Doctor Molin established her own private practice, devoted exclusively to breast surgery and became the director of Mercy Hospitals Breast Health Resource Center. In May of 2006 her practice, Breast Care Specialists of Maine, became a department of Mercy Hospital.
Sharon Leddy-Smart is a woman who lives a full happy life as a wife and mother of five. Working full-time, she manages to train for triathlons and stay connected to good friends. Sharon is also a breast cancer survivor. Diagnosed in July 2009, two days before her twins fourth birthday, and only two weeks before the Tri for a Cure, she didn’t let the daunting news hold her back from participating or celebrating with her family. The following years, Tri for a Cure came quickly, after a year filled with bilateral mastectomy, chemotherapy, radiation therapy, and re-constructive surgeries. Physically unprepared for the challenge, she was determined more than ever to cross the finish line, this time as a survivor. She had taught herself, and her children, that even with setbacks we can overcome whatever obstacles life presents to us, we just have to be willing to fight. Good morning to you both.
We’ve been talking about courage, we names this show courage. Gen and I had this conversation about courage, and what courage means. It’s about fearless, but then we came to the understanding that really it’s more about resilience and the ability to bounce back and be elastic. I have the sense that Sharon, you’ve had this in your life as a breast cancer survivor and a mother and a full-time worker and an athlete.
I know that Doctor Molin has done this, based on the fact that she’s had to go through training. In fact, we were having a conversation before we got on the air as to how many hours a week that was being a surgeon in Brooklyn. It’s pretty appropriate that you’re here. I’m interested, let’s start with you Doctor Molin. One in eight women have breast cancer or are diagnosed with breast cancer over the course of their lifetime, did this help influence your choice of career or was there something else that brought you into being the type of surgeon that you are?
Doctor Molin: I actually began my life as a trauma critical care specialist, which is what brought me to Maine. I have fellowship training in trauma surgery and surgical intensive care. When I came here, the chairman of the department said, who actually … this is ancient history in breast cancer in Maine, Carl Bradenburg wife, Patricia Bradenburg, is somebody who was really at the beginning of breast cancer activism and advocacy in Maine. He said, “Why don’t you take a look at taking care of this particular entity as a separate issue, and why don’t you develop a sub-focus on that.” With that suggestion I was the only female surgeon in this part of Maine, not in the state of Maine at the time, but I started to do a lot of work.
Genevieve M.: Lisa, I don’t know if you know this, but obviously Doctor Molin knows this, but I’m a patient of Doctor Molin, as is Sharon, who is here today. I can officially say that one of the wonderful things about your breast care center is that is patient focused. I don’t know if you’ve had that experience as well.
Sharon: Absolutely.
Genevieve M.: I’d love you to speak to that.
Sharon: Absolutely. I had heard many wonderful things about you of course, and I didn’t really know what to expect when I went in. In fact, I made a phone call and I said, “Is there anything I should be aware of? Should I know anything ahead of time? Is there anything that I need to do?” They said, staff said, “No, just come on and fill the paperwork out and Melinda will explain everything to you, Doctor Molin.” When I went in there, and I waited for a very long time in the waiting room, of course really nervous, my husband by my side. I waited, and I waited, and I waited, and to be honest I was thinking, “Okay, all right, what’s taking so long?” When I went into her office, the examining room, I knew exactly why I had waited so long in the waiting room, it’s because she took her time, she was very, very thorough, explained what was happening, what were my options, how did I feel about it, did I understand it.
Then in my exam she thought that she had felt something in my lymph nodes, and said, “I’m going to take you right down to radiology.” Doctor Molin then pocked her head out of the examining room and said to one of the nurses, “I’m going to be in here for awhile.” I thought, “Wow.” Honestly, I’ve shared this story many, many times. It really meant so much, that personal care, sometimes you’re in and out of doctor’s office in a flash. I really appreciated that one-on-one time and attention. When I ended come back from radiology, actually I wasn’t even back from radiology yet, the schedule was a little delayed. She came in looking for me, personally, which I thought was really pretty special. I was on the table at the time, and she actually hopped up right next to me, which I thought was amazing. I thought, “How cool is this? She cares about me, the person, she’s looking for, she’s literally right there by my side.” It really, really meant a lot to me. I thank you.
Lisa: It is, and I know from my patients, when I have people who have come in and they feel a lump, and specifically a lump in their breast, they’re terrified, and time is really of the essence. As soon as you find something, as soon as you see something it really is important to know what that means, what it looks like, whether it’s benign, whether it’s not. I think that Gen, you were telling me about this yesterday, and I know Sharon you were telling me that you were very quickly diagnoses, scheduled for surgery. Weren’t you about ready to go do Tri for a Cure?
Sharon: I was actually. I was diagnosed two weeks before. It was important to me to be able to do it, it had been my second year at the time. I had always been very active with my family, active in sports, and made a conscious effort to take care of myself. I really wanted to be able to participate in that amazing event. Lo and behold, like I said, I was diagnosed with breast cancer so it had a certainly different meaning the second year. I felt fine, and I spoke to Doctor Molin about what I really wanted to be able to do, and she said, “You can do it.” The surgery was scheduled after, and she knew that was important to me on a number, for a number of reasons really.
Lisa: Right, and you told me the story about seeing the survivors the first year, and knowing that you had breast cancer, and then going back again and having it mean an entirely different thing.
Sharon: Well my first year I did not have breast cancer. I didn’t think that I knew anybody who had breast cancer, had never really been anything that I had experienced in my family. I was just amazed by the amount of support, the amount of people it had touched in a small area, and of course it was much bigger and it is much bigger. To look at the survivors and think to myself how far they had come, not really knowing the journey.
My second year, as I mentioned, being diagnosed, I stood not with the survivors, but with the other women in the opening ceremonies. The survivors stood up front in their pink caps and they read their poem and they cried and they hugged each other, and it seemed so distant to me, it really truly did. It was like I was in a tunnel looking down and I just could not see the light at the end of the tunnel. I was surrounded by my friends, who literally all had their hands on me, and I was sobbing, sobbing because I wanted to be where they were. I wasn’t there and I hadn’t had surgery and I hasn’t started chemotherapy or radiation or any of that, and I really didn’t know what was in store, I just knew that I didn’t want to be where I was and wanted to be over with the survivors.
The third year I was with the survivors, so it was very, very special year for me. It was a challenging year, to say the least, and I was not physically prepared at all. I was one of those people who did not lose weight during chemotherapy but gained weight during chemotherapy. It was difficult to find the time to exercise, to have the energy to exercise with taking care of my family and working full-time during treatments. I tell people I just lived my life, and that’s really what it is. I’m a busy woman, as many of us are and most of us are, and I have a lot of wonderful blessings in my life. Looking back at the situation they were a distraction, a positive distraction. I didn’t sit around and feel sorry for myself, I had to get up the morning, I had to feed my children, make sure they were ready for school, and went about my day; I really, truly did. Don’t get me wrong, the thought of it does enter my mind occasionally , but it doesn’t consume my life.
Speaker 1: We’ll return to our interview with Doctor Melinda Molina and Sharon Leddy-Smarty after acknowledging the following generous sponsors. Akari Salon, an urban sanctuary of beauty, wellness and style, located on Middle Street in Portland, Maine’s old port. Follow them on Facebook or go to akaribeauty.com to learn more about their new boutique and medi-spa, by Robin Hodgkin’s, senior vice president and financial advisor at Morgan Stanley Smith Barney in Portland, Maine. For all your investment needs call Robin Hodgkin at 207-771-0888, investments and services are offered through Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, LLC, member SIPC. We now return to our interview with Doctor Melinda Molin and Sharon Leddy-Smart.
Genevieve M.: Well, this brings up a good point, because my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer a year ago, Doctor Molin knows this. Lisa and I were talking yesterday about the moment when you get that diagnosis. I wanted Doctor Molin to talk about some of the things that she does, because she does them so well, to help, we were talking about resilience and courage, and one of the things that doctors and family members of recently diagnosed breast cancer patients can do is have some tools to help them realize that there is life after the diagnoses. It’s a journey, but like any journey, you do, you travel a distant landscape but you can come back. You may be a little different, but you can come back. Would you speak to that Doctor Molin, because you were so helpful to me.
Doctor Molin: I think there are several elements, one is it’s helpful if you can intuit that people are different, they receive information differently, they process information differently. I find that some things are consistent, people need language that they can understand, they want to hear the truth. It’s important to find out what somebody’s support system is, sometimes we’ll have women who come in on their own. I always say, “You’re here by yourself today.” Often times they’ll say, “I’m just somebody who needs to get the facts first and then I’ll bring everybody into the loop.” Then when their day of surgery arrives, you’ve got a cadre of supportive friends or relatives.
I think that’s important to walk the walk however we do it. You, Lisa, work in an area which I couldn’t work in, which is a more global general health. I think that’s an incredible challenge. People talk about holistic, but you shouldn’t have to go to a holistic specialist to get a holistic approach. That was a very exciting thing, and I think that breast cancer, nobody would ask for that growth opportunity, but any trauma, any tragedy in anybody’s life is an opportunity for transformation. If I can be a part of that process, in addition, and I’m not trying to downgrade the nuts and bolts of good technical surgery and excellent decision making and collaboration with your colleagues, that’s all key. If in the process somebody can find an entry way to make some positive change in their lives, and if I can be a part of that, when someone comes back and tells me that, that’ s a very exciting thing for me.
Lisa: Sharon, did that happen for you? Was this a moment that caused you to really find some more meaning, find additional meaning in your already busy and full life?
Sharon: Absolutely. I felt that it was, I was obligated to reach out and help others who were in my situation or had experienced some form. Many people did reach out to me, they knew a friend of a friend would contact me, asking, “Can you refer us to a doctor? Who did you have for a plastic surgeon? What was your experience and how did you deal with your children?” A lot of people did come my way, but I also gave out my phone number a lot to people that I knew. I just went up to people. I reached out to people who had the pink bandanna. I looked at people right in the eyes and said, “Hi.” I felt that just gave people a little bit of hope. When I didn’t have any hair people looked at me, I made eye contact with them, they very quickly looked away. I always looked right back like to say, “it’s okay.” The hair doesn’t make you who you are. People may look at you a little bit differently, but it’s only hair and it grows back.
Doctor Molin: To Sharon’s point, the generosity of women who have been through this experience in terms of sharing it with women who are newly diagnosed is extraordinary. Support groups are wonderful, but I think sometimes that can be very intimidating for somebody who is a new recruit so to speak. What we do in the practice is, with all of our years, we have … we try to match women demographically with someone else who can be a buddy. Every time we’ve called and said, “Would you be available to speak with somebody?” The answer is always yes. I think it’s an incredibly generous thing to do.
Genevieve M.: Well, I have one last question for Doctor Molin, and Sharon you can chime in here, because we are the lay people in the room. I’m, obviously as my role as wellness editor at Maine Magazine, I’m always telling people to take good care of themselves in the way that you’ve been talking about. One of the ways that women can take care of themselves is through yearly mammograms after 40, at least that’s what we’ve all been told. Lately I’ve been hearing from many people that they’re getting call back from their digital mammograms. I know that that’s somewhat controversial right now, but I do one every year, and I’m wondering what you have to say about that just for the general listener out there.
Doctor Molin: We need to find out what causes breast cancer so that we can prevent it. On its best day, a mammogram is not going to pick up the malignant process until it’s had three to five years to percolate. We’re not getting in on ground zero with mammography, with MRI, with any sort of diagnostics that are available. We’re obviously still not at a place, since we don’t know what the cause is, it’s very difficult to prevent. Mammography has a lot of technical imperfections, and what happens with digital mammography, is it does allow you to see a more dense breast in a better way, but what it also is, is it’s so much more sensitive that a lot of small things, which never pan out to be anything, particularly micro-calcifications, most of which are going to be very benign in the breast, are called abnormalities. The callback rate, the biopsy rate, the anxiety rate go up and it’s not necessarily clear that the cure rate goes up.
For purposes of breast cancer, we really can think about there are three types of breast cancer. There’s the type that’s so non-aggressive that when you diagnose it probably doesn’t really matter, in terms of its cure. There’s the type that’s so aggressive that it may not matter how quote on quote, early. People can fuse mammographically early with biologically early, it may not matter, that cancer is so aggressive that all of the tools that we have for cure may not impact. The sad fact is that women still die of breast cancer. Then you’ve got that middle ground where if we find something, we can impact and change the natural history from death to survival. How the diagnostic tools we have factor into all of that is not necessarily clear. I don’t want to send the message of don’t get mammograms, but it’s important for women to know that there’s a lot of controversy and a lot of ambiguity.
Lisa: Well, this has been a very informative segment. It’s been informative on lots of different levels, from the scientific to the emotional, social ramifications of breast cancer. You are a pretty amazing duo over on the other side of the microphone, it’s really great to have you both in here. It’s been nice to spend time with your Doctor Melinda Molin, and also Sharon Leddy-Smart, breast cancer, mother, full-time work, tri-athlete. With Gen Morgan, wellness editor for Maine Magazine, who her herself has a personal story related to this problem. Thank you so much for coming in and we’ll go into the breast cancer awareness month with full force.
Genevieve M.: Lots of courage.
Lisa: Yes, and resilience.
Lisa: Today in the studio we have Genevieve Morgan with us, she’s the wellness editor for Maine Magazine, who is a sponsor of our show. We have another special guest that I’m going to let Genevieve introduce.
Genevieve M.: Thank you Lisa. Today in the studio we have Gary Gurney, who is a certified rolfer, who practices at Wild Wood Medicine in Portland, Maine. Since 1988 Gary has been dedicated to helping people find natural ways to feel great and live more fully, which we really like.
Lisa: Yes we do.
Genevieve M.: Many of his clients have found that rolfing gives results that go far beyond the usual deep tissue massage and other forms of body work. His passion is to help people find lasting relief from pain, discovery greater mobility, and increase their sense of physical vitality. Thanks for coming to the studio Gary.
Gary Gurney: Thank you.
Genevieve M.: We’re so happy to have you. I’m particularly happy to have you on the Main Magazine minutes, because you and I did a interview for the July issue about feet, and that’s the foundation of fitness. We’ve had a long relationship. Gary, can you tell our listeners out there a little bit about yourself and why you started your practice in rolfing structural integration?
Gary Gurney: I had moved to Maine in 1998, after graduating massage school. Very quickly found that I did not like being massage therapist; ended up teaching yoga, so my massage career ended up going nowhere. Around 2004 I had a neck problem that I was unable to fix with chiropractic, osteopathic work, massage, my yoga practice wasn’t helping. I had a met a rolfer years earlier and came across his name and decided to get some work, and very quickly he cleared up neck problem. I found benefits that were beyond clearing up my neck pain that inspired me to pursue a career as a rolfer. That’s my full-time work now.
Genevieve M.: Well, that’s a common mis-perception about rolfing, isn’t it? That it’s really painful, turns a lot of people off. I was rolfed, you’ve rolfed me, and it was great, it was therapeutic. I had a chro- … I herniated two cervical disks that you healed through rolfing. Tell me why people think it’s painful, because that has not been my experience?
Gary Gurney: In the 1970’s when rolfing first came on the scene, when Dr. Rolf was still alive, there were a lot of young and new practitioners, there wasn’t a lot of experience teaching at the Rolf Institute. The work tended to be very aggressive. In the last 30 years, as practitioners have gained experience, we now have rolfers that have been practicing 40 years. They’ve discovered that there a lot of ways and techniques that you can release tight tissue that don’t involve making a person more uncomfortable than they can bare. They found that’s actually counterproductive. The brain the nervous system ultimately control the state of your tissue and the tension in your muscles, and if you don’t respect the nervous system, you can run a bull dozer over the muscles and they’ll go right back to being tight once the bulldozer is gone so to speak.
Lisa: So far we’ve heard about neck pain and neck pain. What other types of issues are helped with rolfing structural integration?
Gary Gurney: Well, the interesting thing, most people who come to me have some specific issue that they’ve been dealing with years, generally some ache and pain in the neck, lower back, hip, shoulder, what have you. The real goal of rolfing, as Doctor Ralf outlined it, was to really clear up the tissue on the whole body and to try to allow a person to become more resilient, more flexible, more adaptable to every day stresses and strains. The main client for rolfing is a person who just feels like they’re out of whack a little bit. A lot of clients are people in their late 30’s, all the way into the late 50’s, up to any age. People who feel like their resilience and their capacity to recover from stresses and strains is diminished. They come to me to get that stuff cleared out of their body so that they can go forward and just have more energy to live their life and feel really great.
Lisa: That’s perfect, because we’re talking about resilience and courage to live one’s life today. It is breast cancer awareness month and we’re talking about, we were talking with women earlier who were involved with breast cancer. I know this is specifically your field, but it is about resilience, so it’s interesting to note that you have people who come in and that’s what their main focus is.
Gary Gurney: Yes, our belief is that human being, the human body is an amazing organism, it has an incredible capacity to adapt to stresses, strains, injuries and illnesses. Overtime, for a lot of people, the stresses and strains in their body, whether it’s injury, whether it’s emotional stress, whether it’s stress from their jobs or just accumulation of lifetime dings, so to speak. After a while a lot of people feel they’ve run out of their capacity to adapt. A little strain that in your 20’s might get over in a couple of days, all of a sudden when you’re 40 it feels like it’s two months later and you can’t get over it. A lot of my clients are people who want to try to recover some of that capacity.
Genevieve M.: It works actually, but I’d like to go back to when you were a massage therapist and decided you didn’t want to be a massage therapist, but rolfing is body work, I just want to make that clear to the listeners out there. It’s a different kind of body work, but why don’t you briefly describe what a a lay person like myself, would expect. I know when I walked, first time I walked into your office I didn’t know what to expect.
Gary Gurney: Right, well what was difficult for me as a massage therapist was I would have someone come in with a sore hip. I knew deep tissue techniques, as a massage therapist, and I would grind away on their hip and work on their hip. The person would feel good on the table and they might feel good for a day, if we were really luck they’d feel good for two days. They would come back repeatedly with the same problem showing up. It didn’t matter how many times or how hard we worked on their hip, it always seemed to come back. The first thing, when I got rolfed, the rolfer looked at my ankle and said, “What happened to your ankle?” I had sprained it four or five years earlier, and he felt that my neck was trying to adapt to a sprained ankle that never really healed itself. A lot of that work was to get my feet under me and to get my ankles and knees working properly, and just work his way up through my body until he was able to clear up the tissue in my neck. My whole body was able to support that change.
Lisa: Well, I’m interested in why you specifically got in … were doing yoga, you were a massage therapist, this body work was very important to you. I understand that you have a background as a sound engineer possibly or some other things, you’re also an athlete, you’re a father, but why did this call to you specifically?
Gary Gurney: For me, I had been doing yoga and meditation for about 12 years, pretty avidly at the time I got rolfed. Interestingly enough, I found that the type of touch that I received from the rolfer and the awareness that I got of my body was something I hadn’t really learned through doing yoga and meditation or even receiving a lot of massage work, which I had. I found that awareness of my body, and that ability to perceive myself, I was able to just release a lot of anxiety and tension that had been there my whole life and I just hadn’t quite recognized it.
Genevieve M.: Gary, what results can people expect to see after a few sessions of rolfing?
Gary Gurney: Typically, in a successful rolfing session or series, people often, one of the most common comments I get and it still surprises me to this day, is people often feel much younger. I had a client who is a chef in one of the more well-known restaurants in Portland, and as you know that’s grueling work, they’re on their feet all day and long hours. He told me at the end of his series he felt like someone hit a reset button in his body, and he felt like he got the clock turned back ten years. That the long shifts were not making him as tired, and he would recover much better so he could enjoy his time off.
Genevieve M.: That’s … talk about resilience, setting the clock back ten years, not bad.
Gary Gurney: Yes, and a lot of it will just be joint mobility, flexibility, people often feel lighter, that’s a very common comment. People just feel like someone took a 20 pound weight off their shoulders, and that walking down the street is, tends to me more pleasurable in and of itself.
Genevieve M.: Well, and I wanted to touch on that briefly, movement is very important in the rolfing sessions, how people move. I know that when we were working together I would walk about the room and you would see, look at my gate, look at how I was standing. Explain that.
Gary Gurney: That’s a good question I think, because it’s where rolfing is a little different. As a massage therapist I found someone would come in with a strained back, and they would feel great on the table, and then they’d jump up off the table and their back strain would immediately come back. In rolfing what’s important isn’t how you necessarily feel on the table; it’s how you feel when you’re moving and walking. We use walking as a diagnostic to try to be able to figure where strains are in people’s bodies that are holding them back from feeling really free and easy in their movement. I also like to incorporate movement in the work. A session is much more interactive than a massage. I’ll be helping someone to figure out how to move through a strained joint or a tight joint, in such a way that they don’t have to use as much effort as they think they often do to feel easy and free.
Dr. Rolf came up with a really wonderful template, which we call the recipe in rolfing lingo, it’s a series of ten sessions. She set those ten sessions up so that each session has a specific focus on areas of the bodies and a function of the body, and that each session accumulated and builds on the previous session. You’ll get your entire body worked on in a ten series cumulatively, but you will not get a whole body say massage in one session. The idea is that you work on specific functions of the body through the series to create this integrated structure.
Genevieve M.: Then you can come back for tune-ups as you need to.
Gary Gurney: Yes, a lot of my clients, if they go through ten series with me and they find the work is rally successful, a lot of them, if they really enjoy the work, will come back occasionally for tune-ups. Sometimes just one session here and there if they say, get a little crook in their neck or something. Other people just three times a year maybe in the spring or something, just to clear the cobwebs of winter out and move on. It’s really very individual.
Genevieve M.: Thank you so much for joining us Gary, it’s been great to talk with you. To learn more about Gary Gurney and the many benefits of rolfing, visit Gary Gurney dot com, or read my wellness column featuring Gary in the July issue of Maine Magazine, available online at Maine Mag dot com. The October addition of Maine Magazine can be found at your local news stand.
Lisa: One of the ways in which we attempt to give back at the Doctor Lisa Radio Hour, is by supporting the book, ‘Our Daily Tread.’ ‘Our Daily Tread’ was written in honor of our late friend Hanley Denning, and all proceeds benefit her organization Safe Passage. ‘Our Daily Tread’ was written in collaboration with Island Port Press. Safe Passage provides approximately 550 children with educations, social services, and the chance to move beyond the poverty their families have faced for generations at the Guatemala city dump. Of note, my son Campbell, who turned 18 yesterday. Happy birthday Campbell. He’s currently down at Safe Passage working with the children.
The weeks quote comes from Winston Churchill. “Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, it is also what it takes to sit down and listen.”
Speaker 1: This segment of the Doctor Lisa Radio Hour and podcast is brought to you by Thomas Shepard of Herzy Gardener Shepard and Eaton and Ameriprise platinum financial services practice in Yarmouth, Maine. Dreams can come true when you take the time to invest in yourself. Learn more at Ameriprise advisors dot com, and by Mike LaPage and Beth Franklin of Remax Heritage Yarmouth, Maine, honesty and integrity can take you home with Remax Heritage it’s your move. Learn more at R Heritage dot com.
Lisa: Julie Jordan Marchese is a breast cancer survivor, mother, athlete, owner of Inspired Events and founder and race director of Try for a Cure, which raises money for the Maine cancer foundation. Welcome Julie.
Julie: Hello.
Lisa: Hello, Gen Morgan is sitting next to me.
Genevieve M.: Hi Julie.
Lisa: Julie, when we asked you to come in and speak on this segment, one of the things you wanted to be very specific about was that even though this is breast cancer awareness month and our show is about courage and resilience and breast cancer and you’re a breast cancer survivor, you’re raising money in Tri for a Cure for things other than breast cancer.
Julie: Sure, and the reason why it was started that way is because we wanted people to come and honor those who have passed or living with cancer. If we were to limit it to one type of cancer, then we felt that we were limiting the scope of people that would want to support the event. As an event … as somebody that wants to come in and do the race, if your dad had prostate cancer, why not do it in his honor. That’s why we opened up the scope. Now, of course it’s women, and it’s very pink, so sometimes it does, people think that it’s a breast cancer event. Of course many of the women that are there, we have over a hundred survivors on race day, and I would say the largest percentage of those are breast cancer survivors. As we all know, breast cancer is probably the largest women’s cancer of all the cancers.
Lisa: Right, and we’ve used the statistic one in eight women in her lifetime will end up with breast cancer. Sharon Leddy-Smart was on earlier today, and she of course is a breast cancer survivor.
Julie: Has done the race several times.
Lisa: She has, she mentioned this several times.
Julie: She did, actually, she was supposed to be operated on before Try for a Cure and for some reason they didn’t operate on her and she did the race. Went in and had her operation after, so Sharon is an amazing strong woman.
Lisa: She, then she definitely worked with Doctor Molin on that. She actually said this was very intentional, very purposeful. Tell me about your experience with, your personal experience with Tri for a Cure. I known that not only are you a founder, and the race director, but you’ve also trained for it yourself, been in it yourself, and you have a very personal reason for having started this whole thing I believe.
Julie: Sure, well initially my mom has breast cancer and I was in a spot where I could spend my time giving back after years of working. That became my cause, because my mom had breast cancer. I got introduced to the Maine cancer foundation and was put on the board there. During that time there were a couple of events that I helped them do there, and when you get involved with organizations and you give back, you think that you, yourself, are immune from these diseases. Before you knew it I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I never thought in my right mind that would happen. That was the cause that I chose to work for, and all of a sudden I now became a sister in the fight against breast cancer, which was not that difficult for me because I had been ingrained in the whole thing for so long.
After I went through my ordeal, one of the things that I like to do is challenge my body, and heard about another all women’s triathlon. Actually got a couple friends to go down and to it with me, never had done it before. I went down and did this race and I was so empowered by the whole thing, how it made me feel, how it made everybody feel. You didn’t even have to have cancer to feel you were a part of this amazing event. I brought that back with me and got excited that we should be able to do that in Maine, there’s a hundred women down there in Maine, so why not try it here?
Lisa: How many years ago was that?
Julie: That was … I think I did 2006.
Lisa: Is it true that you now sell out almost immediately?
Julie: It’s very true. We were just talking about that before I came here, and how this past year we sold out 850 spots in four minutes.
Lisa: Right, and this is for a triathlon, where you actually have to run, bike, and swim. It’s not just your regular race. That says something.
Julie: You have to raise money too, so you have to be totally committed, not only for yourself to go out and raise money and train. It’s not easy to do something like that without training.
Genevieve M.: In your experience, getting back to what Lisa was saying, in your experience with cancer research and fund raising for cancer, finding the cure for cancer and also research. What are some other events? If I’m a couch potato and I don’t really feel like I want to go train for a triathlon.
Lisa: Which, by the way, she’s not. I just want you to understand that, Gen is very active, but if she was.
Genevieve M.: If I were I couch potato, what are some of the other events around the state that can raise money for cancer awareness?
Julie: Oh, well I don’t think that there are … as far as raising money for cancer.
Lisa: Well, the Maine Cancer Foundation I know has an event coming up.
Julie: Sure, there’s the breast cancer luncheon. That’s not necessarily an event that you would train for. What’s great about the luncheon is that it’s more awareness and they also give awards to people in the community that have given back from a research standpoint, from a community based standpoint, from all sorts of arenas of which they’ve helped the cancer community. Then we’ll spotlight certain women that have lived with cancer and shown them how they’ve lived through their process and what it’s made them, or what they’ve become from it. It’s really a celebrating event, it’s a lunch-in, it’s at the Holiday Inn, it’s actually October fifth, this next Wednesday. It’s been going on for ten years now. I think there’s a lot of survivors that go to this.
Lisa: I went a couple of years ago with my friend Meg Wolf, who is both a breast and a bone cancer survivor, and I can attest that it is quite a phenomenal event, very inspirational.
Julie: Sure, Meg got the, I think the Meredith Burgess spirit of life award I think one year. Meg has done some wonderful things, of which I’m cooking our of her cookbook now.
Lisa: Me too, I actually have a recipe in there for beets slaw. I hope you look up that one Julie.
Julie: Yes, I will.
Lisa: Meg will actually be on the show in an upcoming session, so we’ll talk more with her about that.
Julie: Great.
Lisa: What about if you’re a gardener, is there something you can do if you’re a gardener and you’d like to help out with this awareness?
Julie: There’s the pink tulip project. Sure, so there’s something for everybody. The pink tulips are really cool, it’s a two time a year thing where in October you plant and April and May there’s bloom. All over the state of Maine actually I think you see pink tulips pretty much everywhere.
Lisa: Yeah, and if you go on the Maine Cancer website, the Maine Cancer Foundation website, there actually shows where each of the gardens are. I know there’s one in Yarmouth, I go running by it in the spring.
Julie: I think they actually had a tour this year, where you got on a bus and you went through Portland. You actually saw all the gardens around Portland.
Lisa: There’s different tulips too. I was very surprised to see this. There’s pink and then there’s one that’s remembrance and then there’s another one. I’m not a gardener so I …
Julie: No, me either. I’m a runner.
Lisa: Right, but I think it’s great because what you’re saying is do what you can. We talk about this every week on ‘Our Daily Tread’ on this show we read ‘Our Daily Tread’, which is a book and we read a quote out of it. That was something, that was a way that we did what we could. You did what you could, which was you found an organization that has enabled other women to run, bike, swim, raise money, be in part of the sisterhood. If you can’t do that, you can go to a luncheon, you can put some tulips in the ground, there’s all different ways that people can give back.
Julie: Sure, always. What I like is trying something new. If it’s something you’ve never done before, there are certainly different ways in which you could try to … I wouldn’t be a gardener, so for me to put in a pink tulip garden would be challenging.
Lisa: Well maybe in the future after you’re done cooking all the recipes out of Meg Wolf’s cookbook. That will be the next thing, very good.
Julie: Right.
Lisa: Well thank you for coming in today, Julie Jordan Marchese and talking with Jen and I and for wearing your CGM’s outfit to remind us of all the great work your doing. You know that you’ve raised some phenomenal amount of money, I’m not even sure that there’s official numbers on this yet.
Julie: It’s in excess of three and a half million dollars.
Lisa: Yeah, so it’s fairly impressive.
Julie: Sure.
Lisa: We know that you continue to give back to the community and there are lots of people who have been impacted by your work. We applaud you and we thank you for coming in.
Julie: Well thank you for having me.
Lisa: Thank you for joining us this week on Doctor Lisa’s Radio Hour and podcast. During difficult times we’re often told we must be strong, we’re advised to tough it out. Except the stronger and the tougher we are, in the conventional sense of the word, the more rigid we have the tendency to become. In traditional Chinese medicine the tree is often given as a symbol of strength. Wood is the element associated with the liver, an organ which is able to help keep our blood clean and circulating despite the foreign substances we might introduce into the body. Not unlike tress in nature, which keep the air of the earth’s body clean and circulating. Trees withstand tremendous natural forces. They remain strong and even continue growing no matter what weather patterns are introduced, rain, sun, drought, and especially wind. It is the wind that may ultimately prove a trees undoing. Those who live in hurricane susceptible locals knows this to be true. The more rigid the tree, the more likely it is to be toppled in a gale. The strength of a tree lies in its flexibility, likewise, the strength of a person.
This week on the Doctor Lisa Radio Hour, we offered our courage show in honor of breast cancer awareness month. As we reflected on the meaning of courage, especially in a cancer scenario, we came to realize that we were really describing resilience, the ability to bounce back no matter the circumstances. Which is truly strength, tree strength. Courage is merely the choice to continue standing in the face of hurricane force winds. It is the ability to keep things, life, family, job responsibilities, circulating, despite the difficulties inherent. Which is what each of our Doctor Lisa Radio Hour and podcast guests this week have done. A brave resilient group this is, flexible and fearless, the very definition of strength.
Read more of ‘Doctor Lisa’s Bountiful Life’ on bountiful-blog.com or go to Doctor Lisa dot org. We are fortunate to have working with us on the Doctor Lisa Radio Hour, musician John McCain, who does our sound engineering work. John McCain is not only a talented musician, but also an artist. His exhibit, ‘Dreaming of Worlds’ is opening at the Cambridge Coffee House on Broadway in South Portland. Find out more on Facebook or on the doctorlisa.org website. Thank you for joining this week, may you have a bountiful life.
Speaker 1: The Doctor Lisa radio hour and podcast is made possible by generous donations from the following sponsors, Maine Magazine, Tom Sheppard of Ameriprise, Mike LePage and Beth Franklin of Remax Heritage. Whole Foods Market, and Akari Salon. The Doctor Lisa Radio Hour and podcast is recorded in downtown Portland at the offices of Maine Magazine on 75 Market Street. It is produced by Kevin Thomas and Doctor Lisa Belisle. Editorial content produced by Chris Cast and Genevieve Morgan. Audio production and original music by John C. McCain. For more information on our host, production team, Maine Magazine, or any of the guests featured here today visit us at Doctor Lisa dot org. Tune in every Sunday at 11 AM for the Doctor Lisa Radio Hour on WLOB Portland, Maine 1310 AM or streaming WLOBRadio.com. Podcasts are available at doctorlisa.org.