Transcription of Saint Joseph’s: a Small College Renaissance #204
Lisa: This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine Radio show number 204, St. Joseph’s A Small College Renaissance, airing for the first time on Sunday August 9, 2015. St. Joseph’s College located on the shores of Sebago Lake in Standish is a small Catholic liberal or arts school that is experiencing a renaissance. Founded by the Sisters of Mercy in Portland in 1912 St. Joe’s has long been known for educating students in fields such as nursing education and business. Lately they have added a permaculture farm and are planning a hospitality center and multi-age educational living experience. Today we speak with college president Jim Dlugos and farm manager Michael Russell about the future of this forward thinking institution. Thank for joining us.
It has been my great pleasure to visit St. Joseph’s College in Standish several times over the last year or so as we were writing an article for Maine Magazine. It’s also a privilege today to have before me Jim Dlugos, who is the president of St. Joseph’s College in Standish, Maine, to have a little conversation about the work that they’ve been doing over there. Jim lives in Windham with his wife and two children. It’s great to see you again.
Jim: Thanks, Lisa. It’s good to see you.
Lisa: I’m really impressed with St. Joseph’s. I first visited St. Joseph’s when I was I think in high school and part of our Catholic youth leadership organization I was over there for a week and then I went back for there for the advanced Catholic youth leadership. I can’t claim to be a practicing Catholic currently but certainly I was impressed with the campus. You’re on a lake. You have beautiful facilities. In fact, you’ve built a beautiful new athletic facility. You have a farm there now, a big stone barn, and you’re graduating people who are really reinforcing the workforce in Maine in great ways, nurses and teachers and business people, and, yet, you’ve got new and interesting ideas for what a small college or university should be. How did this come to be? Why are you here in our great state? Why all the wonderful ideas that you’ve been trying to implement?
Jim: Sure. Well, I arrived at St. Joseph’s three years ago now the summer of 2012. I had spent the previous almost twenty-five years working in higher education. Along the way I came to really appreciate the importance of small colleges, the smaller college model in the higher ed ecosystem. For decades now people have been saying that small colleges don’t make sense economically. They are not the most efficient way to provide education to students. Having spent all that time working, and this is my third small college, I really came to understand incredible value that we provide to students.
It’s very important for me that we make sure that small colleges be here the next ten years, twenty years, thirty years, hundred years. I say on a regular basis the work I do is not so much focused on now but on what’ll happen when I’m long gone making sure that this kind of college and in particular St. Joseph’s College is still there and thriving. The basic understanding that I bring to this is that the traditional business model for higher education, which has been a one size fits all model, makes no sense when you consider the variety of types and sizes and kinds of colleges. It has probably never really worked for smaller colleges. It’s predicated on a significant amount of student revenue, on philanthropic activity, but it’s also predicated largely on a significant amount of revenue coming each year from investments from the endowment.
Small colleges do not have large endowments. The median endowment for colleges in this country is about $22,000,000.00. Hopefully half of the colleges have endowments between 2,000,000 or less, which is a very different way of thinking about it from what we hear in the public conversation about colleges and endowments. We hear about Harvard and those sorts of things. Well, most of us are nowhere near the Harvard one. We don’t have a significant enough endowment that’s going to generate the revenue that we would need to have that traditional business model actually work. Okay.
We could do several things. We could spend all our time trying to grow our endowment to $400,000,000,000.00 and that’s not happening, or we could say, “What else can we do? How else can we make this work?” St. Joseph’s is particularly well positioned because of the amazing campus we have to try some new things. What the strategic plan that the board of trustees approved this past fall is predicated on is the development of what we’re calling mission-aligned businesses things that we can do on campus that will generate revenue, that will support our core activity, but that will also be aligned as the name suggests with the college’s values and our core commitments.
What we’ve developed are a series of businesses that at least in prospect will generate revenue but will also provide students with the chance to get hands-on learning, experiential learning, and also opportunities for students to actually earn real money, which is part of the challenge also these days for many students. It’s hard for students today, many students today, to really get the most out of their college experience because they have to spend so much time working in many cases that’s in very low-pays jobs that require them to get up very early in the morning and go and do something which is not really going to be relevant to their lives in the long term.
If we can develop businesses on campus that will give students a chance to work in their field, or potential field or explore what their potential field might be, and also provide revenue for the college, that’s a great idea. We think it’s a tremendous model. We have several going. One is already functioning and it’s the farm, which you’ll be talking about a little later. The farm grew almost accidentally.
Back in about 2000 the college acquired some property across Whites Bridge Road from the main campus with the idea at that point that it would become a series of athletic fields. Well, various things happened as is often the case and that plan we moved on from. The property has a tremendous hundred plus year old stone barn that you mentioned. It was part of the [Veral 00:08:51]l vacation estate that the Sisters of Mercy bought in the 1950’s when they moved the college from Portland to Standish. The stone barn is a one of a kind. There’s not another one like it in certainly all of Maine. There may not be another one like it in all of New England because it’s not a traditional New England barn. It’s got a Norman influence, which has to do with Mr. [Veral’s 00:09:13] interest in architecture.
The property was sitting idol. Some folks on campus said, “Well, we like to garden? Can we go over there and plant some tomatoes?” At that point the answer was, “Sure, if you want to. Don’t hurt yourselves. Don’t get to settled because we don’t know what’s going to happen next with that property.” That just grew. It grew organically, pun intended I guess, out of this interest that people had on campus to spend some time on the land. Eventually our then food service provider Bon-Appétit got involved. They were very committed to local produce and to sustainable practices. They said, “Well, could we do more in a more organized way something over at the farm?” The college said, “Sure. Don’t get too settled. We don’t know what’s going to happen next.”
When I arrived in 2012 the farm was really functioning on a year to year basis. We had hired a full-time farmer, Michael Russell. He was functioning in that role. There was no long-term plan for the farm nor long-term commitment. I said, “Well, this is crazy. This is a wonderful thing. This makes absolute sense.” We committed instantly to a long-term relationship with the farm. At this point the farm is actually licensed to sell everything they produce, vegetables and meat products anything else, soaps and various things. We have sheep and goats. We have alpacas. We have lots of chickens. We’re in the process of expanding our field under cultivation from one acre to five acres.
We produce again a variety of food types. A lot of it goes over to our cafe where it’s served to our students a wonderful farm to fork model. A good deal of it goes down the road to Catherine’s Cupboard, a food pantry in Standish that the college supports. I’ve been saying to folks at some point we’re going to now in the near future I hope have enough food that we’ll be forced to sell it and we’ll no longer be able to give it away, which is part of that business model.
Michael is a great resource. He provides lots of educational experiences for students not just our students but school children in the area. During the spring and the fall, you’ll always see three or four big yellow school buses over there. Students come and they learn where food comes from. It doesn’t come from the grocery store. It’s not wrapped in plastic. It comes from someplace else. Our own students have a wonderful relationship with the farm. All students at St. Joseph’s are required to take an environmental science course as part of that they do some time on the farm and their hands dirty.
Our nursing students get wonderful experience with basic life functions like births and all those sorts of things. They practice giving shots to the animals. We have a pre-veterinarian program. The students in that program also get a lot of experience. We have this core activity already happening. The question is: Why don’t we take this and make it into more of a traditional business and have students really be part of the operation of that business and start to learn what it means to run a small business?
Small farming is an area for growth in Maine. We are excited about the prospect of soon being able to offer non-degree non-credit programs, a few folks in Maine who want to learn more about how to run an efficient sustainable small farm, so that’s the model we’re talking about. Students can be involved in all sorts of things from the business aspects to the marketing aspects to the actual production. The farm will also provide us opportunities to talk about food and security, food distribution systems for small farmers, which is one of the big challenges that the smaller farmers have. How do they get their product to market? As you can see it’s got a whole range of opportunities, aspects that make it really a vibrant part of the conversation going forward. That’s just one of the models.
Lisa: It’s my understanding that St. Joseph’s was originally on the campus, the Portland campus here, of Catherine McAuley and that this is a Sisters of Mercy school. Catherine McAuley of course is the sister of the Sisters of Mercy. One of the big tenets of Catherine McAuley was hospitality and is hospitality. The thing that I find interesting is that you’re not just doing a farm you’re also talking about hospitality from you have a big stone barn that’s going to become an event’s facility. You’re talking about putting some condos and I think a hotel eventually down on the waterfront. You’re actually going to be welcoming people onto the campus who aren’t just students.
Jim: That’s right. One of the goals of the strategic plan is to have St. Joseph’s College become a learning destination a place that will welcome and invite folks from all over of all ages to come to campus to spend two hours or two years or four years or however long they’d like engaged in one of the core values of liberal arts education which is lifelong learning. What do you want to learn today?
The hospitality, the stone barn is in the process of being renovated into an event center. It’s a great place for all kinds of events from wedding receptions, to conferences. It’s a tremendous space. We’re very excited about that. If you think about this mixed used community, again all in support of the core college activity of educating students, what else can we do? What else can we do? What makes sense for us? While we don’t have a tremendous endowment in terms of dollars, we have 480 acres on Sebago Lake, 2100 feet of Sebago Lakeshore front as part of campus. We feel pretty lucky in that resource. The question is how can we use it in the best sense of that term to support our work?
In addition to the stone barn, which will become this event and conference center, what else can we do? We talked about some kind of small and appropriate to the area and to the spirit of the area lodging facility and that’s a project which is still in the conceptual stage. We have some great ideas working for that. We’ve talked about in the same vain an active 55 housing community for those who would really love to be able to spend part of their lives right on the water close to the water but also really want to have the resources of a vibrant active community. One of the ideas that comes out of that is our students do tremendous work in terms of community-based learning and volunteer services.
We’ve been recognized several years in the president’s honor roll. We actually this January received notice that the Carnegie Foundation had recognized officially St. Joseph’s as a community engaged learning college one of the I think it’s 416 in the country that has that designation. We’ve got tremendous things going on there. Wouldn’t it be great to have a group of additional people who can become part of that activity people who have decade of business experience and who could mentor our students could work with them on projects. We’re working with the town of Standish on several projects. We’re working with other entities not for profits and actually some for profits to add that other aspect of community-based learning.
One of the challenges that we recognize in the world these days is that as people stay in the workforce longer, the intergenerational disconnect creates all kinds of opportunities for misunderstanding. Well, why not take that on? Why not say let’s figure out how it is that people from different generations can actually function together and make that part of our project as well. The hospitality piece is we’d be delighted to have anyone who wants to join us and to be part of our journey, right. It’s a community which is really strong because of it’s core values, hospitality is one of them, that come from the Sisters of Mercy, who founded the college in 1912. If this is a place that seems to you to give off a vibe that makes sense, come and see come and experience absolutely.
Lisa: On my second visit to St. Joseph’s it was clear that I was not going to escape without a meal. It was a wonderful meal. It was so important that I come in. It wasn’t just, “Lisa, why don’t you come to the cafeteria?” It was on the top floor of I’m not sure what hall it was.
Jim: Alfond Hall.
Lisa: Alfond Hall. Out looking over the lake with mountains in the distance and this beautiful spread that was prepared of mostly local and/or organic foods and there was such pride and not only that but there was an entire group of people that was all sitting there eating with me. Everybody seemed so happy to be there so energized by their relationship with St. Joseph’s. One of your sisters she described herself as I believe it was a New York Italian nun not to be confused with a Boston Irish Catholic nun. Just the way that she described herself was unlike any nun that I have ever met before. I think that her teachings are in criminal justice for example. It was fascinating to me that you’ve taken this idea that many of us have about the religious life or nuns Catholicism and you’ve brought it forward into the future by bringing other people with you that are going to exemplify something different than what we might have traditional about as religious and spiritual.
Jim: It’s really a good point. Sister Michelle is actually a graduate of St. Joseph’s. When she graduated she went … Her degree’s in sociology. She went and was actually a police officer on Long Island before she decided, “Oh, I have this religious calling.” She came back and joined the Sisters of Mercy. She’s an extraordinary person as are all the sisters who are part of campus. One of the challenges that religious communities who have sponsored all kinds of actives but especially higher education in this country for a very long time have is that there are simply diminishing numbers of people who are interested in that kind of commitment.
The Sisters of Mercy are one of the groups that have recognized that. They’re very concerned about the future and how it is that the spirit of Catherine McAuley and the special characteristics and [careism 00:20:26] of spirituality of Catherine McAuley can continue beyond the time when it’s conceivable that Sisters of Mercy [inaudible 00:20:34] sisters will be available to exemplify that life. The Sisters of Mercy have made a very large project of making sure that the people who are working with them in their ministries whether it’s higher education or hospitals or whatever it is really understand what this is and are able to express it not just verbally but also in their actions.
At the college one of our goals is to make sure that everything we do exudes mercy that people understand that. Again, hospitality, respect, recognition of the need to be supportive of those who are less fortunate than we are are all part of that. That’s one of the things that I really find most energize about St. Joseph’s and I found energizing about the place I was prior to coming here. Catholic colleges or faith-based colleges really provide another aspect of the conversation we can have in the community because we can talk about things that you can’t necessarily talk about or in some cases institutions don’t choose to talk about because among the things you shouldn’t talk about in polite company are religion and politics, right?
Well, let’s talk about religion. Let’s talk about spirituality. Maine has an amazing capacity for spirituality, which I think is just tremendous. Every year of course, whatever the cycle is, we get the reports that Maine again has come up as one of the least religious states in some survey. If you live here, it doesn’t feel that way because of the strong sense of spirituality. Let’s make that part of the conversation. Let’s see how that works. One of the goals for one of the initiatives in the strategic plan is to create a center for the 21st Century considerations of faith and spirituality. How do those two things come together because depending on who you listen to they’re not the same.
Well, let’s talk about that. Let’s see what that looks like. Everyone it seems to me has a spirituality whether they know it or not. If you unpack it for some individuals, they may not be particularly happy about it but it’s there. There are some core values some things that we really deeply believe and that motivate our actions. Let’s try to make that more conscience. Let’s try to make that more part of the way we move through the world. The examples of the Sisters of Mercy who are on campus are tremendous for students. We’re lucky. We have eight sisters who are part of the college community. There are many places around the country where they’re lucky to have one or two sisters.
We have this wonderful group of sisters and most of them are retired some do volunteer work some are teaching still full-time in the classroom. They’re a great example for our students and for the entire college community. We’re having a lunch with another guest in the last couple of months. One of our faculty members we were talking about the college he said, “I’m not Catholic. I really had never thought that I’d come to work at a Catholic college but here I am.” He says, “I’ve come to understand and really know and appreciate the Sisters of Mercy.” Their presence and their careism that informs so much of what we do and that makes it possible for people who don’t have any prior relationship with the Catholic church or in some cases have distant relationships or troubled relationships really to see a particular expression of Catholicism which is wonderful and giving and open and embracing.
Lisa: Well, it was interesting for me because my middle child she just completed a year and she’s going into her second year at Providence College, which as you know is run by the friars. They’re the Providence College friars. They are required to do two years of a core curriculum which involves conversations about the foundations of religion. I’m not even sure exactly what else is involved but cultural values and to some extent morality. I have never had such heated discussions with my child as after her sitting through a lecture about something about Dante’s inferno and how this relates to her modern day life. It’s really struck me that this is something that because it’s important enough to a college to have and be there, and similarly I’m sure that St. Joseph’s has some core elements that they’re putting out there, that it’s actually still relevant to children in this generation, children, young adults in this generation, and it’s still generating conversation. It’s still causing them to think about themselves and where they fit in the broader environment.
Jim: We have cross cutting themes in the strategic are wellness and sustainability. Wellness is the human name for sustainability. When we talk about that we don’t just mean recycling and we don’t just mean buying produce locally all of which we are doing and we’re delighted to be able to do that to the level that we are. It’s extraordinary in some cases. Just as a quick example 40% of the food we purchase comes from within 300 miles by comparison most institutions are happy if they get to about 10%. We made a strong commitment to buying locally.
Sustainability for me also means all those things that we care about. If we care about philosophy, if we care about the classics, if we care about the liberal arts tradition, what are we doing today to ensure that they will be there fifty, a hundred years from now for other people to care about them and to love them. The disciplines themselves need to be nurtured and cherished in the classics Dante’s Inferno as an example. People stopped reading it. There are many reasons to stop reading it, right?
What will happen? What will happen to that part of our rich cultural past? In my other part of my life I’m a literature professor. Now, we maybe have gone down a dangerous path. I’ll try to reign myself in. Classics, why things become classics is an interesting study in itself. Fundamentally there’s one theory which says, “Classics are classics because for each generation they raise important questions”, maybe not the exact same questions and it may not be that they convey truth with a big T, but they generate conversations of the kind you’re talking about that your daughter is encountering. We have to make sure … We have to work to make sure that those conversations continue well onto the future absolutely.
Lisa: Well, Jim, we could keep talking about this for quite a long time. As you know I’m a big fan of education and actually of classics and of reading and spirituality. I think that there’s so many different ways that the show that we do here with Love Maine Radio and St. Joseph’s and the work that you’re doing in so many different ways that they touch, but for now we’ll just have to leave people with the knowledge that there is going to be an upcoming article in Maine Magazine about St. Joseph’s College. I’m really impressed. I’m impressed with what your organization you and the people that you’re working with and your entire community your students are working towards. I love seeing people take something and innovate with it and work with it and nurture it. That’s something that’s happening at St. Joseph’s College. I really appreciate you’re doing that.
Jim: Well, thank you. Thank you very much, Lisa.
Lisa: We’ve been speaking with Jim Dlugos, who is the president of St. Joseph’s College in Standish, Maine. For those of you who have not been out to visit I encourage you to do so to learn about them and read our upcoming Maine Magazine article. Thanks for coming in, Jim.
Jim: Thank you.
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Lisa: Today in the studio we have with us the first person who has ever worn a dashiki to our recording space which I love. It’s also interesting because this is Michael Russell, who is the farm manager at Pearson Town Farm, which affiliated with St. Joseph’s college in Standish, Maine. You wouldn’t necessary think that somebody would be wearing such a brightly colored garment which actually is originally of Africa. Thanks for livening up our space, Michael.
Michael: Absolutely.
Lisa: It’s great to have you here.
Michael: Thank you.
Lisa: I’m actually personally impressed that I knew that this was called a dashiki before John McCain, our audio producer, actually mentioned this. You have an interesting connection to Africa.
Michael: A couple of lose affiliations with Africa. I’ve had a number of friends who’ve gone over there and served with a number of nonprofit organizations largely involved with agriculture in the area. It’s become a point of interest for me just because as climate change is happening we’re finding that we’re in a place now where we have to be much more creative about how we’re going to grow or foods and if ever there was an adverse environment to grow food in, especially some of the traditional foods we think about Africa being hot and dry at times, there’s a place there. Some to the technology, technology using that term loosely, that we’ve seen that they use for growing things that we could commonly find here is fascinating to me. I’m going to make a confession I did not know that it was called a …
Lisa: Dashiki?
Michael: I just call it my summer shirt.
Lisa: Well, it’s happens to be … It’s orange and yellow and green and there’s big, big patterns. The last time I met you at St. Joseph’s you were not wearing this summer shirt. You were wearing a more traditional farmer’s garb I would say.
Michael: Right. That’s because you have to make certain sacrifices being a farmer. You’re surrounded constantly by dirt. You tend to burn through your nice clothes quickly. We have our rugged get dirty clothes and then we have our nice go to town or be out in public clothes so brightly colored this is what we wear out.
Lisa: Well, I’m enjoying it so thank you. It definitely has brightened up my morning so far. Why are you a farmer? I’m always interested in the answer to this question.
Michael: Because I love it. Well, if you ask my wife, she would tell you right off the bat I would die in an office. I spent probably the better part of fifteen years working in a cubicle doing various things. The second that I got off of work I was out. I was in the garden. My very earliest memories with my parents were out in the garden. I grew up in a very agricultural heavy environment in central California so it was all around us. In the summer time we were picking berries. In the autumn we were harvesting whatever there’d may be.
We’d always raised some manner of animal, livestock, or otherwise in the yard. The idea of being able to mingle my passions with the rest of my life, I know there’s that old adage about not mixing work and pleasure but outside all the time, snow, rain, sleet, sun what have you and there’s that opportunity to bring others along for the ride. In the last seventy years we’ve become so disconnected from where our food comes for. We take it for granted that we can go to Shaw’s or Hannaford or Safeway if you’re on the West Coast and you pick it up and there it is. For me it’s becoming more and more important to bring people out to that environment. It allows me to be an educator and work with a wide variety of people without being stuck in a box.
Lisa: I did notice this when I was at the farm that you have a number of students working with you. From what I understand you actually have people who are normally food service during the school year when St. Joseph’s is fully operational they actually come out and do some grounds work and some farm work. There’re a lot of other people who are interested in getting their hands into the dirt.
Michael: Absolutely. I think now more than, well, maybe in anytime in recent history people are really reconnecting in this foodie movement that’s just I’d say being maybe ten or fifteen years now is really finding it’s way into a lot of people’s brains. People want to connect with where their food goes. There’s something very spiritual about being able to get out and not just connect with your food but outside. We’re in a culture where we’re always on our computers or our tablets or our iPhones. Texting is the new form of communication.
To slow that down to really be able to get out and do something that maybe is more an organic speed, I think really appeals to folks. Even the younger kids, the younger kids have been great. There’s this weird you’ve got the my age and older who have some fond memories of grandma and maybe mom and dad working in the garden and having their garden. Then there’s this gap. Then you’ve got these younger kids who come into they’re born into this resurgence in organic agriculture and connecting with their food. There’s that gap in the middle. Really connecting with those folks I think is important because a lot them come out and they’re terrified. They’ll come out in their brand new white sneakers or their nice clothes and you can see the terror in their eyes. Then they get into the work and they realize how fulfilling it is. Oftentimes it’s those folks that come back for more.
Lisa: I remember that. The same thing that you’re describing my parents actually dug up part of their front lawn and put a garden in. They had us out there weeding. We always had a compost pile. Myself in my own life I would put a few tomatoes out by the door yard in door yard. I have always had a compost pile. Yes, I definitely feel like there is something that happened where all of a sudden there was something scary about trying to grow something. I don’t know why that is because we still have back ups. We still have Safeway, Hannaford, Shaw’s, local food, local farmer’s market. There’s still going to be food even if we can’t grow it. I wonder why we’re afraid.
Michael: I think it’s just culturally it’s become a foreign phenomenon. I can only speak really personally. I can’t speak for everyone. You’ve got middle America where all of the corn and the soy and all of the produce is grown and then it comes back and then we have the convince of going and picking it up from the supermarket. Then that leaves us with this information with this education gap where, “Okay. I know where to get it from, but how do I get it from here to there”, by way of that I mean growing it from seed to fruit.
What if I’m going to do it wrong? What about the insects? What about the food safety? I think food safety’s at the forefront of everybody’s mind. I think that there is a great misunderstanding as to what that means. In some ways we’ve become afraid of our food. In the last ten or fifteen years you can go to the Safeway or the Hannaford and you can pick up a bag of spinach. We’ve seen Salmonella problems with the spinach there. If it’s happening on a commercial level, will it happen in my backyard? Maybe that makes us a little nervous about the idea of trying to do it ourselves.
Lisa: Yes, that’s a really good point. I think about all … I mean spinach is one example. We’ve seen ground beef recalls. There isn’t really anything that hasn’t escaped some food issue. That’s just the stuff that actually makes us ill in the short term. That’s just the diseases that crop up maybe as a result of poor fertilization or whatever. For whatever reason microbes are making it into that farming situation. We don’t even know about some of the stuff that might be making us sick longer term some of the stuff that’s being used on crops. We don’t even know how this really impacts us, pesticides or antibiotics in livestock. There is this interesting question that every day we have to get up and have three square meals and some snacks in between. We’re putting it into our bodies but what is it that’s going in that we don’t even realize/
Michael: Right. Well, and I think that leads to a much larger conversation because we have some of these unanswered questions. What are the impact of these things? Then there’s also a question of resources. When the line and share of our food system is completely dependent on petroleum products and we know that the population is increasing and we know that petroleum is a finite resource and we know that supply will decrease, what’s plan B? What’s the impact on the environment? We need to ask ourselves questions like that because in our lifetime in our children’s lifetime even our grand children’s lifetime that’s not going to directly become a problem or impact us. What happens down the road? What happens to the generations to follow us? I think we have a moral obligation to use our resources more wisely, to stretch them out, make them more available to others but also not to negatively impact long-term health of not only ourselves but also the planet.
Lisa: I’m sitting here just thinking about all the things that you just said and the broader implications of these. I’m also thinking about what it means too really to get into the dirt and to be dirty and to really be faced with … Something that was just seared in my mind I’m a doctor so I’ve seen people who have passed away. I’ve seen birth. I’ve seen the that the very reality of just being in existence. When I was visiting your farm last fall, there was a little group of rabbits that had been born and had not survived. Their little bodies were lying there. That’s the nature of it. That is truly the nature of this life that we inhabit. Yet, I believe that we are all disconnected from this. That becomes also a thing of fear, life, death, birth, illness, and that’s something that we don’t get to see if we’re just going to the supermarket and taking something off the shelf.
Michael: Right. There’s a disconnect there. I have three children. I was a vegetarian for twelve years, better part of twelve years. When we got pregnant with our first, we decided that protein was probably a good idea just for my wife’s sake. When the children were born, we established one very simple rule and that is if you’re going to be part of the food system on the consumer end you have to participate in the whole cycle and this is not only just the life and death element of it. They get to choose whatever their animal is whether it’s a chicken or a lamb or whatnot. They raise it from the day it’s born.
They participate in the processing of it. They only have to do it once. That’s so they understand the fullness of the lifecycle because we don’t see. We go to Hannaford. We go to the butcher shop. We pick up that nice packaged steak with no need to think about what was the process. We’re completely removed from it. There’s also the human element of it. Having not participating in that, can you empathize with the folks that are in the slaughterhouses that have to do the meat cutting and the packages and the farmer’s who have to sort the cows and decide which ones do we keep which ones do we call? I feel like there’s a dangerous propensity for us to become entitled. We’re entitled to this. We’ve never actually earned it. We don’t understand it. I think that understanding is important.
Lisa: I’ve always thought about … I’m also a vegetarian although I eat fish. It’s more in raising an animal to eat. It takes up more energy. I just try to steer closer to vegetables. I’m trying to make it clear that I’m not some extreme animal activist. This is where I’ve come to in my life health reasons, ethical reasons, personal decision. When I think about people who do eat animal products and the animals themselves and how they’re raised, the energy that goes into raising an animal so that it can be used for meat if it’s humanely raised and they’re not feeling stressed out while they’re eating the grass and they’re not feeling stressed out while they’re being milked for milk and they’re not stressed out when they finally will be sacrificed for food, then I would think that their stress hormones would be lower. I would think that they would actually be healthier for us to eat anyway.
Michael: Right. When we look at nature, the farm is based on a permaculture principal, a permaculture design, and part of that is what do we see in nature that we can mimic? Agriculture is so intensely dependent on foreign inputs fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, feeds, seeds all these things that by in large most farms we have to ship in. There’s a carbon footprint there because we got the trucks and the packaging and all of that. When we look at nature, nature has been doing what nature has been doing for a very long time. By in large it’s in balance.
If something goes a little out of whack, it corrects itself very quickly. It’s not shipping things. You don’t see Bullwinkle out on a tractor fertilizing the forest. You don’t see Rocky the flying squirrel in a crop duster. What you see is you see animals and vegetation in balance. I think there’s a spiritual element to it. I think you were leading in that direction. There’s also we need this in our food system. We need to eat more vegetables by in large because we don’t eat enough vegetables. We are very protein dependent. When we do eat those proteins those who choose to rather than being a separate piece of the food production system how do those integrate together because I think you see animals that are raised on large confined animal feed operations.
We all maybe in our heads have this idea that our happy steaks came from happy cows on happy grass and happy farms. Really if you look at some of these large cattle operations you’ve got cows on barren dirt with a conveyor built with feed coming across. That’s not the way that nature has ever done it. By in large they’re missing some of those the nutrients that they’re going to get out of the natural feedstocks that they’re eating. They’re missing that happy cow spiritual if you will element to it. It’s going to be a completely different nutrient supply for the end stage consumer so that’d be us.
We need to get back to a place where if we’re going to eat proteins … Again, I feel like we should eat more vegetables. Proteins are not a bad thing. We see it in nature. There are herbivores. There are carnivores predator and prey animals. That’s all part of the cycle of life. The end result of those animals goes back to feed the plants which goes back to feed the animals. We have a system there. I think that we need to get back to that in the human in the consumer phase of the whole food process if not just for our physical health also for our psychological and spirit health of it all.
Lisa: One thing that people have brought up when I’ve had these type of conversation with them previously is how do we scale up? Where we have such a large population ever growing ever needing food how do we get to this place where we can offer a permaculture type of operation in a way that we can actually feed people effectively?
Michael: Well, and that’s what we hope to be able to demonstrate over at the farm. Permaculture in the larger commercial agriculture system is a taboo word. This is the way we’ve always done it. This is the way it has to be done. We’ll then somebody introduces something new and we’re naturally resistant to change. We know how we’ve always done it. That’s great. By creating a farm based on natural systems and based on the idea of reducing hopefully the amount of work and the amount of imputes that we’re bringing in perhaps it’s not going to be the great cash cow but creating balance.
Balance I think is the single most important thing. I don’t think that we would be prudent to move to an all permaculture system or an all organic system or an all conventional system. Here one of my great concerns is that like I said the bulk of our food system is completely dependent on this one petroleum driven food model. Where’s our plan B? When that collapses for whatever reason, we run out of oil or some other unforeseen hiccup comes, where’s our plan B? As we talk about scaling up let’s talk about now.
A couple of years back we had a drought that went through most of the middle part of America and food prices on everything from corn on the cob to Eggo’s went right through the ceiling. We saw just with feedstock we saw a 30% increase in less than two weeks. Now you’ve got folks maybe in the bottom economic brackets who were already struggling to access food whether it be healthy or otherwise now they can’t even access, we’re going to use this phrase loosely, the not so healthy foods. Our hope is to when we’re thinking about scale up thinking about diversifying. Inherently the use of oil is not bad. I think the problem comes in how many of us are using how much of it all the time. Say we wean off of that great dependence and we back it up with a more conventionalized organic system and then also with a permaculture system. Now we’re still producing food but in a way that will last much, much longer.
Lisa: What I think is interesting is that you are not just talking the talk you’re actually walking the walk along with the St. Joseph’s students and also students from the community around St. Joseph’s and also people who are a little bit older who want to come visit the gardens. For you it’s really you’re living the life that you are hoping to model I guess.
Michael: I think that’s important. It’s one thing do as I say and not as I do. I think we have to do. They’re folks out there who are into permaculture and permaculture design who are just light years ahead of what we’re doing. Bringing all of those groups together we have access to larger tracks of land than some. There are folks who have maybe a bit more knowledge. If we can bring those together to create a working sustainable model, that’s our end game and show other farmers that it can be done. Maine we’re seeing a rise in organic farmers. People have seen organic can happen and there’s that passion for it. Now we need to take that organic to the next step and say, “Okay. This permaculture it can be done. It can be sustainable.” It creates environmental balance, spiritual balance, psychological balance, economic balance. I think that balance that’s really at the heart of everything.
Lisa: You mentioned that you originally have central Californian roots and somehow you ended up here in Maine. I believe your wife is from South Portland originally?
Michael: She is indeed.
Lisa: How’d that connection happen?
Michael: That’s long story for another show. We were the result of a three-thousand mile blind date. I met some folks that she grew up with. They were working on the West Coast. The long and the short end of it I spent several months avoiding her because I wasn’t about blind dates. In fact, our first date they decided that they would get us all together on the beach and we would have a group date. I proceeded to throw her into the surf. We had a little wrestling match and I threw her into the surf. She had to go to a meeting immediately following this. I figure I’d make her really mad. I would end this blind date nonsense. Two weeks later there we were on our second first date. Not long after we were married and here we are.
Lisa: How old are you children?
Michael: Children are nine, ten, and fourteen.
Lisa: I guess it’s worked out okay so far?
Michael: It’s worked all right.
Lisa: Yes. How do you like Maine?
Michael: I love Maine. I had summered up here previously. My grandmother and aunt had lived in Bath. We had come up for summers which was great. What they’d hadn’t warned me about was winter. Back home we could drive to the snow if we wanted to. It was an anomaly. Yes, I don’t think I was ready for the cold. I’m used to four season growing. We’re finding new ways with much thanks to Eliot Coleman to grow even through the winter using some hoop house technologies not quite the same but it works. It’s good.
Lisa: How has it been for you working over at St. Joseph’s?
Michael: It’s phenomenal. I love that it’s not just about the mechanics of it. It’s deeper than that. It’s not just about growing the food. It’s not just about finding results. It’s about creating community. It’s about impacting people not just college students for that four-year window. We work with a whole range of folks. We’ve had the elderly out. We’ve had the very, very young. We’re able to create an educational experience for them that’s tailored to what they need in that moment. It’s not formulaic. The community by in large at the school is very supportive. In fact, we had some professors out, some business professors out, they took off their suits for a little while came out and helped us work in the fields the other day which was phenomenal. It’s just great to see the energy of the college getting behind something that I think other colleges might shy away from.
Lisa: Well, it’s been very clear to me in the visits that I have made to St. Joseph’s that you and the president, Jim Dlugos, are quite close. There must be some embracing of the farmer and the farm.
Michael: Well, if nothing else he tolerates my madness so that’s good I thought. Jim has been monumental in helping things grow. The first couple of years we were on the farm it was previous presidents and there was the agreement, “Yes, we’ll grow for a year. We’ll see how it goes. Maybe next year you’ll be here maybe you won’t”, then the next year came. When Jim came onto to the scene, he really became that link. He saw the potential there. He absolutely ran with it. What’s been good was that he sometimes, agriculture speaks a different language than business or the rest of the world even academics, Jim has been able to translate and hopefully make some sense out of the gibberish that I say to the rest of the folks on campus. It’s been good.
Lisa: How do your kids like this whole farming thing and getting close to the things that they’re going to be eating?
Michael: My fourteen year old will probably move to New York City just as soon as is humanly possible. My younger two I think they’ll stick with it for a while. Of the three, I have two sons and a daughter, I think my daughter is in this for the long haul. Sometimes they drag their feet but by in large they get behind it. They enjoy going out and harvesting the produce that they eat. They don’t necessarily like the processing of the livestock. They like the end result and they like the beginning result. I think they’ll do all right.
Lisa: How do they feel about working with all of these people who are in and out of the farm over time and the relationship with St. Joseph’s?
Michael: Yes, no, they absolutely love it. We have been very intentional about making sure that our children are just in the community. Farming is important. Sustainability is important. Community building is the most important. If we don’t have each other to rely on, then we really haven’t anything. They have adopted a number of the college students as they come through. They have worked with everybody from the kindergartner’s on up. I had my nine year old, nope my ten year old, we had new student orientation not too long ago. I was working with a group. I turned around to see my ten year old leading a farm tour. That was both exciting and terrifying. He got his information correct.
Lisa: Well, I appreciate the work that you’re doing at St. Joseph’s. I think about my own small college experience up at Bowdoin it was great. It’s also right in the middle to Brunswick. It’s not like they easily could’ve put a farm there. It would’ve been really a different thing all together if I was walking from classroom to dirt. It is a valuable thing that we’re bringing back to people and something I know that a lot of individuals are craving. The fact that you’re able to integrate this new way of doing things into the college community I think is pretty admirable.
Michael: Well, I appreciate it. We do what we can.
Lisa: We’ve been speaking with Michael Russell, who is the farm manager at Pearson Town Farms, which is affiliated with St. Joseph’s College in Standish, Maine. Thanks so much for coming in and talking to us today. Good luck with the raising of the crops.
Michael: Thank you very much.
Lisa: You have been listening to Love Maine Radio show number 204, St. Joseph’s A Small College Renaissance. Our guests have included James Dlugos and Michael Russell. For information on our guests and extended interviews visit lovemaineradio.com. Also read about St. Joe’s in Maine Magazine. Love Maine Radio is downloadable for free on iTunes. For a preview of each week’s show sign up for our E newsletter and like our Love Maine Radio Facebook page. Follow me Twitter as Dr. Lisa and see my running travel, food, and wellness photos as bountiful1 on Instagram. We’d love to hear from you so please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Love Maine Radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our St. Joseph’s A Small College Renaissance show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have bountiful life.