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Transcription of First Lady #234

Speaker 1:	You are listening to Love Maine Radio hosted by Dr. Lisa Belisle, and recorded at the studios of Maine Magazine in Portland. Dr. Lisa Belisle is a writer and physician who practices family medicine, and acupuncture in Brunswick, Maine. Show’s summaries are available at lovemaineradio.com. Here’s some highlights from this week’s program.
Lisa:	The biggest thing I learned when I went to work for the Maine Women’s Lobby is not to make assumptions about a person’s policy positions based on the party they were in or perhaps the rural or urban area they were from, or even the committees that they were assigned to.
	This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you’re listening to Love Maine Radio, show number 234. First airing for the first time on Sunday, March 13th 2016. Mary Herman is a woman of many talents, she has intersected with and supported Mainers in countless areas including education, health in a non-profit world.
	Today, we speak with Maine’s former first lady about her experience as an advocate, and how she hopes to continue her good work in the years to come. Thank you for joining us.
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Lisa:	My next guest is someone that I consider to be someone of a triumph. I’ve been trying to get her on my show for the last four years, I believe. She’s here, so hooray. This is Former First Lady, Mary Herman. Mary Herman has had many community roles, teacher, special education teacher, nurse, and an advocate for women’s issues and low income families. She is currently the principal at Mary Herman Consulting where she advises non-profits, and is especially interested in the intersection between philanthropy and the non-profit world in Maine. Thanks for coming.
Mary:	Good morning. Thanks, Lisa. It is nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Lisa:	You are a busy lady. You have spent the better part of your life just going non-stop pretty much from what I can tell. I think the fact that you even have a moment of breath that you can come in here and talk to us is pretty great. I want to know a little bit about how it has been to simultaneously have your own identity as Mary Herman but also the other of Angus King?
Mary:	I think I might start by saying maybe a smart thing I did when I married for the first time way back in 1973 was keeping my own name. I’ve always had the name Mary Herman which is the person who grew up in a civic minded family in Wisconsin, and migrated east for work and school, and eventually found myself in rural Maine which was a bit of a wake up. I had never lived in a small rural area, but I made a great many friends when I lived in Washington County.
	Eventually, as you mentioned I did go to nursing school at UMA and drifted down. I think I was raised to look forward and see what I could do for the community.
Lisa:	Tell me about your civic minded family?
Mary:	I very much credit my interest in the nonprofit world to my mom. I grew up in the 50s and 60s, my mom was an at-home mom but she wasn’t at home that much. She was on a number of volunteer boards, and she did a lot of community volunteering. It’s fun for me to tell people who were not as old as I that what we now know as the United Way was in my childhood the Red Cross and the Red Feather. Red Cross was community healthcare agencies and Red Feather was social service agencies.
	I really did go door to door with my mom and her white packet of names to ask for $10, $15, $20 based on last year’s contribution. If a person donated, they got a little pen that was a Red Cross or Red Feather. Many people’s picture of their mom is standing at the back door with a plate of cookies, my picture of my mom is sitting at her desk on the telephone.
Lisa:	You have this interest in health and education as well, and you’ve done both. What was your draw for each one of those fields?
Mary:	I think it was actually serendipitous when I moved to Maine in 1973. I was a teacher and I had also done special education. There weren’t any jobs at that point teaching in Washington County. I had done some volunteering at a family planning clinic when I was teaching in Washington, DC years earlier. I volunteered at the local family planning clinic in Calais, Maine, and that eventually more after evolved into what had been a volunteer position with a part time clinic into a full time clinic and I worked myself into a job.
	I found myself advising the physicians based on what I was reading in the technology magazine but it was called “Contraceptive Technology” then. I decide I’d better go to nursing school because I was very interested in women’s health and community health, but I didn’t have the healthcare background. That is what launched my interest in going to nursing school here in Maine.
Lisa:	What did you do with your degree? You went to the University of Maine at Augusta.
Mary:	I did, I got a two year degree what they call an ADN an associate degree in nursing in 1978 at UMA. I initially worked in labor and delivery, and then the nursery at Parkview Hospital in Brunswick which at that time was where other babies were born. I worked at an outpatient program for women in substance abusing families. I learned the world of substance abuse and addiction and rehab.
	I did that for those combination, those things for a couple of years before an opening occurred at the Maine Women’s Lobby. I worked for two years on the 110th Maine legislature in Augusta and it was totally on-the-job training. I’ve never done that before. A little bit of advocacy on pro-choice issues but I really learned OJT.
Lisa:	Tell me about that, what types of things did you learn and what was your essential position?
Mary:	I think one of the fun things to talk about is the biggest thing I learned when I went to work for the Maine Women’s Lobby is not to make assumptions about a person’s policy positions based on the party they were in, or perhaps the rural or urban area they were from, or even the committees that they were assigned to. If I did my homework, I could find that perhaps a very conservative legislature from a small town in Maine would be very strong on smoking related issues and health related issues.
	If I did my research, I could gather advocates and allies from a broad range. I worked very hard to be a non-partisan lobbyist even though I work for the Maine Women’s Lobby which many people considered pretty liberal because women having an advocate. It was really important to reach out always to what we call both sides of the aisles, Republicans and Democrats, and Independence. Whenever I worked on legislation, I made sure that we had a good basket mix.
Lisa:	What were some of the things that you saw working in education or in healthcare as issues for women and children that have continued on into the stay?
Mary:	I think access to healthcare, access to housing, access to nutritious food. I actually worked for a short time during nursing school for the Women, Infants, and Children known as the “WIC” Program. It might have a different name now, I can’t remember. I think access to basic life needs was and remains my biggest concern.
Lisa:	You have an interest between the intersection, you have an interest in the intersection between nonprofits and philanthropy. What does that mean?
Mary:	In my work over the last specifically six years, having my own one-person company and working with nonprofits and as you know nonprofits are always looking for funding and ways to grow and more predictable streams of funding. The organizations that I’ve worked with, and foreign advised in addition to doing fund raising events which are a lot of fun have been pretty busy in the grant writing world.
	It takes a lot of time and a lot of work as they reach out to foundations for grants. I wish it were an easier connection between foundations, funders, donors, but not individual donors, really the foundations and family foundations and organizational foundations. I would like it to be easier. I would like for nonprofits to not be constantly turning out long grants and come banging their head against the wall and trying to meet deadlines.
	I have a hope that foundations will make it easier, express more clarity in their request for proposals and in their grant applications. I think I would like to see more personal interaction meetings between an applicant organization and a foundation or even group meetings where they explain in a room of people. I’ve been in those rooms what they’re hoping to fund this year or this year and into the next year and that it’d be more of a partnership and an alliance than an us in them.
	I know that there are people in the foundation world who aren’t happy to see me say that, but I really would like it to be more friendly, softer, less of a divide.
Lisa:	Because I don’t have that much of a background in the foundational world, I’m interested in what you just said about people not being happy to hear you say that. Is there that much of a divide that people would like to keep it separate or?
Mary:	Not all foundations. Sometimes I feel like the foundations are holding their funds and holding their priorities close to the chest and I wish it were a little more open. I think it would be a lot easier for nonprofits if before they went and wrote the applications they had a much even clearer.
	I’m pretty sure the foundations believe and I don’t mean to say I’m critical, that they are quite clear in what they’re hoping to fund and what their priorities are and what the individuals who built the foundation are looking for. I’d like to see it even more open.
Lisa:	In the work that I’ve done with nonprofits, part of what I noticed was that a lot of time can be used to write these grants and maybe go after things that aren’t a great fit from the foundation standpoint anyway. Is that one of the things that you’re talking about?
Mary:	I can give an example. I was approaching a foundation where I happen to know the foundation administrator. I told them that my client would be very interested in applying. The foundation administrator was very clear with me and said, “You know Mary, I can’t take this organization to the family, to the decision makers, because your numbers, their numbers, your client numbers are just not big enough, deep enough.”
	It was like, “Thank you. This is going to save a lot of time.” On the flip side, I asked that person if we could come meet with them and maybe they would learn a little more about the organization. We did go and meet with the administrators of the foundation and although the foundation that I had reached out to couldn’t fund us, it turns out there was a smaller foundation within that larger family that was interested and did fund them, did fund the client.
	If we get a chance to meet personally and paint the picture of who we are and what we do, I think anecdotes go a long way. There might just be opportunities that we don’t know when it’s black and white on paper.
Lisa:	You and I worked together on a project for Safe Passage, a book called, “Our Daily Tread.” This was few years ago, raising some money for that organization that was founded by Hanley Dunning. When I was working with Safe Passage, one of the things I learned is that increasingly, people are asked to put their numbers out in front. The donors really want to understand that what they are doing is making a difference. They want to see some progress for their investment or return on their investment essentially.
	This feels like a shift from what perhaps it once was. What’s your observation?
Mary:	I’m doing some research into that now and trying to educate myself more into what some people are calling the new philanthropy with a new face of foundations. I think there is a greater desire on the part of the funders, the foundations to be more involved, more integrally involved, more even physically involved whether it’d be by site visits or other ways to have a much more hands on understanding.
	I’m in the process Lisa of trying to educate myself more. The Ford Foundation is doing some new work and some of the major national philanthropy information and philanthropy advocacy organizations are doing some soul searching and also sharing of what they’re going to be doing in the future. Hopefully that will be terrific and more helpful.
Lisa:	I know it’s a challenge, because I know we all would like to believe that what we’re doing is making some positive progress in the world or the money that we’re putting into something actually is going to give us a return on investment by having worked in healthcare for quite a while. Sometimes our lead time is very long, sometimes you don’t really know if you’re actually impacting the state of someone’s health for quite a while.
	I think that’s been part of the frustration that I have seen is not just healthcare but sometimes education and other related fields are the same way.
Mary:	I totally agree with you. I think it’s hard and that’s why I’ll go back to what I said a minute ago which is that I think personal interaction, personal meetings between funders, and organizations eyes-on, hands-on, anecdotal information would hopefully be reassuring to foundations. That they would trust that whether money is going to go is going to make a difference. It might take two, three, four, or five years but they’re not going to get cold, hard data in the short run because another thing is that nonprofits have a hard time collecting data, they’re service providers.
	They’re not statisticians necessarily. I’ve run up against this too with clients where the funder wants a lot of data pretesting, mid-testing, post-testing whereas what you have as teachers who want to be with the clients and with the students. Also, not intimidating the students that all they’re going to do is have tests pre, mid, and late. It’s a conundrum and I guess it goes back to what I said maybe a few minutes ago. It would be great if there could be increased trust and maybe that comes by developing personal relationships, which we all know is important.
	We’re fortunate to live in Maine where we see each other coming in and going in, we know each other, and we get to talk about each other’s children and families. That’s what builds up trust because if we know each and we know each other’s background, we’re going to be honest with each other. Hopefully, the honesty leads to trust.
Lisa:	I completely agree and I think what I have seen also is that sometimes having those added layers which are supposedly to create objectivity so that you can actually see things. You can make an objective comparison and say, it sometimes backfires. To have so many layers between person and person, the person is on the ground doing the work and the person might be able to fund that work to say, “First, we want all of your paperwork. First, we want all of your numbers.”
	I’m not sure that people are always able to give enough of an elevator speech to draw in a potential funder?
Mary:	Yeah. That is real challenge whether it’s the mission statement, the elevator speech, and also speaking the language of the funders. Sometimes the people that are making the decisions are my age and older. The service providers are millennia’s or younger, and there’s a bit of a language lingo gap that needs to be broached.
Lisa:	It’s interesting you would say that because I have thought the same thing recently, I believe that a lot of the same … This is maybe going on for a little bit of attention but I believe that many people of the last few generations have the same goals which would be gender equality say, or racial equality.
	What I’m hearing when I talk to people who are perhaps younger that I am is a whole different set of terms that are being used. The people that I see who are perhaps a little older than I am, they want exactly the same thing but that’s just not what things were called back then.
	I had a conversation with somebody recently where she talked about dealing with gender or something other than being binary. I thought, “Wow, that’s fascinating. Nobody has ever said that before.” I think that, that was just part of what she had been checking it in with. I don’t think people my age or older have any particular quarrel with the concept; it’s just not necessarily the way that they know how to speak.
Mary:	We need to be reminded what that means. You’re right, we know the concept but binary stop to think what does that mean, not just male, female for example.
Lisa:	Yeah. It’s interesting to see the evolution. It’s interesting to see the things that gender issues or racial issues. These are the things that we’ve been working on now for decades.
Mary:	Yeah, but too long.
Lisa:	Yeah, absolutely too long and we’ve also seen good things happen. Sometimes over time, the historical perspective gets lost. I don’t know it’s necessarily the young that have lost the historical perspective on some of these things. Sometimes it’s older people too.
Mary:	I think the young don’t realize a lot the history and don’t understand what happen in women’s movement, what happen in the civil rights movement that I feel like we’re still in the middle. If you think about it, so many young men and women now have parents who are doctors and lawyers. Whereas, when I grew up I don’t think I knew a female lawyer. I may have known one female physician whereas the students that are in college now for example, they didn’t grow up where opportunities were limited.
	Frankly, maybe boring for your listeners but when I went to college, the opportunities for women were to be a teacher, a social worker, and a nurse. At that time, there were no nurses in my family. I wasn’t sure what social workers did or whether I could do that, but the women in my family were teachers. That was my direction and I kind of felt that could combine social work and teaching way back in the 60s. When I was in college, I know one young woman who went to law school, and two young women who went to medical school.
	Just the time lag between my time and your time when I bet you weren’t the only woman in your medical school class?
Lisa:	No. I think we were just under 50%.
Mary:	That was in the period of 20 years, so then the people 20 and 40 years younger, they don’t realize the evolution of opportunity.
Lisa:	I’m glad we’re talking about this because you and I both have children who are in college. I have two kids in college, you have one and one who has graduated, and then you have three older step-children.
Mary:	Right.
Lisa:	I spend a lot of time talking with college age, specifically my college age daughter because she’s interested in gender issues about what it means to be female in this world, to work and to also have children. Actually, I speak with my son about it too, but just in a different way because he’s thinking on this as different. I think for my Abby to not quite understand the practical nature of being married to someone and raising children while you were simultaneously trying to explore your own career.
	I think there is the ideal situation where male and female, each person gets to have their path. Somehow the children get raised along the way, and the household continues. I think that that’s great, but there’s a lot of compromises that occur along the way. I think for me to talk to my daughter about, “Yes, when I was your age, I felt absolutely certain that gender issues would look a certain way. Our household rules would be a certain way.”
	Over the last 22 years of raising children, I realized that sometimes practical gets in the way of ideal.
Mary:	I was having this discussion with Angus the other day, I’m not sure that motherhood has changed but fatherhood has really evolved. I think it’s really interesting as I watch my own grown step-kids and their families. Dads are much more involved. Dads have taken on a lot more responsibility. Dads understand certainly different than the way I grow up and even in the intervening years. Yeah, I think it’s great that you’re having that discussion with your kids.
Lisa:	That’s actually really for a point too about the fact that as males, it’s not as if young men have been … They’re actually being asked to do more than maybe they once were when they were just the breadwinner of the family. I don’t know that we ever and I know women are being asked to do more too. That’s always been kind of recognized, that if you go into the workforce then you’re still going to be expected to raise the kids.
	Now, it seems as though yeah, young men not only are you going to be the breadwinner but you also are going to be expected and want to be part of your children’s lives. That just really changes the dynamic within the family.
Mary:	It’s kind of interesting to think about how role models have evolved of who and what is mom, and who and what is dad, and who’s adjusting to it more easily than others. It’s fun to watch.
Lisa:	I agree. You are your own person and you’re doing your own thing, but a big part of what you were asked to do while Angus and actually still is in office. While he was in office as the governor, was to be a connector with him. You were by his side a lot which required a lot of your own energy, and you were raising your children. What was that like? It seems like it must have been kind of crazy.
Mary:	When Angus began as governor in 1995, Ben was 4-1/2 and Molly had not yet arrived from India. She came that February, and so my kids were little. That was really my priority, but there was this amorphous thing called “First Lady.” I really didn’t know what that meant and the governor’s wife prior to Angus’ election was of course Senator Olympia Snowe and she had been in Washington as congresswomen and senator.
	There wasn’t a lot of immediate history, she did a lot of stuff on weekends. I did bump into the wonderful Polly Curtis who is the wife of Governor Curtis. I asked her versus Angus was sworn in, “How do you do this?” She said, “Just be yourself.” That was incredible, amazing advice, and it was quite a relief. Actually Lisa, what I did is I said, “There’s no book about being the first lady of Maine. I don’t really know what to do.” My kids were little, so what I did was I backed into it.
	I would go up to Augusta to Blaine House on Fridays and do things there whether it was traditional, nonprofit gatherings, or teas, or meetings with people who wanted to have something that the first lady was involved in. I would take the kids up with me on Fridays and the Blaine House staff would help me kind of oversee them. As they got older, I went on Thursdays and Fridays, and as they got a little older I went on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays. When I felt they were old enough and I could get childcare, I would do stuff out of the house.
	After the eight years, they were both in elementary school full time. By then, I was doing more and more and it was fun. We did a lot of … I’m pretty proud of the issues that we were able to highlight while Angus was in office from the office of the first lady although they never called it that. Breast cancer awareness, and underage drinking awareness, and children’s literacy, and then the fun and easier stuff, advocacy for Maine arts and crafts, and Maine artists and artisans.
	Some stuff was easier than others but I met a lot of wonderful people and I travel the state and I did a lot of reading to kids with my Dr. Seuss’ hat on. Again, it was on-the-job training but Maine is a great place and it was a privilege to meet so many great people.
Lisa:	I think that’s actually how I first met you though you may not remember this is through raising readers which is literacy organization that is done through Maine Health and actually statewide now.
Mary:	It’s an incredible program. My grandkids here in Maine, each has the 12 books that they got over five years.
Lisa:	Yeah. I think doctors and healthcare providers have been very successfully reading the books.
Mary:	They’re stuck with it. It’s so great.
Lisa:	Yeah, in the hands of children. Which does kind of speak to what you’re saying that sometimes you plant the seed and you don’t really know if it’s going to grow or not, but there is often some longitudinally to the actions that you take. No matter where you are, whether you are working as an advocate at the state house or whether you’re working as a nurse, or an educator, or whether you’re doing whatever this amorphous first lady role is.
	I guess what I’m wondering, you made a very conscious decision I believe I’m remembering this correctly that to raise your kids in Brunswick, in your own house, not in the Blaine house then really be protective of their lives and not push them out there as being public figures themselves. How did that conversation look between you and Angus?
Mary:	Our home in Brunswick is in the neighborhood and my son’s closest friend lived literally through the backyard, through the shortcut. The kids didn’t even have to cross the street, and I just couldn’t imagine moving up to the Blaine House in Augusta which is not in a residential area. Most of the homes have been converted into offices, and I kind of felt like if I raised my kids there, they would kind of look out the window and see dad coming and going from work, but it would be long days.
	Finding friends, and neighbors, and playmates would be kind of starting over. To be honest, I didn’t want to raise my children in a home where they were waited on, where they were service people servers. I just felt like that doesn’t really fit this generation. I wanted them to have as much as they could the same childhood that they would have had, walking to the preschool, walking to the elementary school, and sticking with their same friends. We were really lucky it worked for us.
Lisa:	You had two children that you were raising while Angus was in office. There was a hiatus, non-political kind of hiatus, and you actually took a journey in a camper I believe which I spoke with Angus about a few years before. He went back into the public life and it seems like a good dividing point. What was that like to all of a sudden go from, when you live in Brunswick, it’s a nice little college town, raising kids, first lady, and governor, to just going to take off and see the country.
Mary:	It was wonderful. It was terrific. I loved it. It was nearly six months of being on the road, and being in blue jeans everyday, and not worrying about how’s my hair? Did I remember my lipstick? Can I wear sweats to the grocery store? It was sort of the driving off into the great anonymity was great and the time with the kids. The uninterrupted time with the kids was a gift that we were able to do that.
	From a political standpoint, it was really smart to get out of town and not be still in Maine with the new administration and things changing, and some things remaining the same, and some things being dismantled. They just get out of town and have absolute, wonderful anonymity, and be with the kids. We did home school them, we did our very best at home schooling. I love the time together and I was sort of strict about every night I would read aloud to the kids about where we’re going to visit the next day, sort of that pre-tourism thing.
	Being able to see the country, being able to be together, visiting the amazing national parks and monuments was absolutely fantastic. It was totally anonymous, a really funny thing happened. As you may or may not recall, Angus is an acquaintance of David Brancaccio from public radio. Angus had met David who grew up on the Colby Campus, his dad was a professor and before we went David called and said, “Angus, would you consider dispatches every couple of weeks. Give us a little flavor of the economy of the various places you’re seeing?”
	Angus said, “That’s sort of intriguing.” Angus had been a broadcast person, so he didn’t have any trouble in front of a mic. David said, “I’ll pay you $200 per dispatch.” Angus said, “That will buy some diesel fuel, that will be good.” Every two weeks, Angus did a dispatch. This is a long story. We were hiking in the Grand Canyon and bumped into family, “Hi, Where are you from? Hi, where you from? We’re from Maine. We’re from Connecticut.” They said, “Oh that’s interesting. Did you hear that the governor of Maine and his family are traveling?”
	Angus said, “Really? Cool.” We each went on our way. We had a 100% anonymity and what was most important to me was that my kids did. They were just totally kids. We had a wonderful six months seeing the country, and visiting friends and relatives. Angus teases me that I had more relatives than he ever imagined. I recommend any family that can pull it together to take their kids on a camping trip and RV trip. It’s the most valuable thing you can do.
	Have the teachers call me if they’re concerned. I just believe so deeply the importance of family time together. You can squeeze in a lot of education at the same time.
Lisa:	How old were your kids when you did this?
Mary:	The kids were third grade and seventh grade. I think seventh grade is almost the limit. When people ask me about it, I say, “The earlier you can do it, the better.” By seventh grade, you’re taking them away from their junior high friends, and their athletics, so if you can do it and different families have different dynamics. I would try and do it before seventh grade.
Lisa:	I’m always jealous when I talk to people who have had the opportunity to do this because now, all of my children are beyond that age, so I no longer could do it. Every person I’ve ever spoken with about this type of journey is the education and the bonding that you have access to, it’s just something you couldn’t replicate in a normal day to day setting.
Mary:	I think now what we can pull off with their kids is shorter trips to New York, or some national athletic championship, or something where the kids don’t realize I bet you’re getting some good time with them too.
Lisa:	I agree. I have had that, so I feel like I’m lucky in that respect. I’m wondering what it was like for your kids and I don’t know if you ever talk with them about it and I suspect you did. Even as sheltered as they were, still in the public eyes, still the children of the governor and the first lady of the State of Maine.
Mary:	You know Lisa, maybe it’s about time I asked them to go back in history and tell me what I was too apprehensive to ask at the time where they were too young to even know. I can say kind of a fun story about my daughter Molly. Molly was a senior in high school when Olympia Snowe … Was she senior in high school? Yeah, I think so. When Olympia Snowe decided not to run and Angus grabbed the brass ring and decided to run.
	Before he did, he talked to both of the kids. Ben was in college and away, and Molly was still in high school. Angus asked Molly, “I’m thinking of doing this. Do you think I should?” Molly’s answer was, “Dad, you need a project and I don’t want it to be me.” That was the okay from Molly but then she was a senior in high school and she knew she would be in college and actually she was, when Angus was sworn and she was a freshman in college. Both of the kids by the time that US senate came around.
	As far as the campaign, Molly have worked a little bit in the campaign, Ben was doing other activities. Molly did a little in the campaign and she did to a press conference and I was very proud of her.
Lisa:	Now, she’s at American University.
Mary:	Yes. She’s very happily situated in Washington. Sees her dad from time to time. Not regularly, but if the calendars work.
Lisa:	Was there a connection between her dad being in office and governor?
Mary:	Maybe a small one. When she decided to transfer, she took a personal six month trip to India volunteering, and traveling, and did all of her transfer applications before she left. Most of them are urban areas though, she mostly wanted to be in an urban area. It would be nice but it wasn’t the primary motivation.
Lisa:	Before we came on here you were talking about an article I had written for Maine Magazine about my own experience with cancer. I know that your family has also had experience with cancer, and also based on the fact that you’ve worked in healthcare. You have that experience and what I have always known as doctor, but now really know was the person who has had cancer that it is a family experience that you can’t leave unchanged from going through that. What has your experience been?
Mary:	I wasn’t married to Angus when he had melanoma. I know that his former wife was a wonderful person and a very good friend was right there all the way through it. For this most recent experience, I would just say just being there and loving, and taking it one step at the time. I’ll be honest with you, when Angus was diagnosed this last time, I did not go to the internet. I didn’t go to the internet, I figured I’ll be overwhelmed, I’ll be frightened, I’ll read different things.
	Even the doctors recommended and I sort of heard increasing doctor recommendations on the “Don’t go to the internet.” I just decided in this case, I would be there to hold Angus’ hand as much as I could and take a lot of notes, and have my questions on a piece of paper so the doctors would know I had them. I think it’s just being there and being optimistic. What else can you be, got to be.
Lisa:	I think that’s very true and actually even as a physician, going on the internet myself. I remember coming back because I got my diagnosis when I was way on a trip, when I was in New York. I was on my phone immediately looking at what does this mean, what are the statistics. I actually came out looking on the internet so profoundly discouraged because there wasn’t really a clear answer and I wanted a clear answer.
	That was certainly one of the drawbacks was to say, “This may or may not apply to you.” There is this uncertainty that we can never get our arms around when it comes to diseases like cancer. I think that, that’s an interesting observation that you would have. Really, this is what I found was people wanted to … They wanted to do something because they felt like that, if they could just do something and somehow would make things better.
	The best thing the most people did for me, it was just say, “Hey, we’re here. You want to go for a walk? Do you need some soup?” Things that were so very simple because we can’t impact whether somebody’s chemotherapy works but we can impact how their mental mindset is, while they’re going through something like that.
Mary:	Yeah. Being a friend and just being there, I think just being there. If I could just take a minute Lisa, I want to say that Angus was very fortunate twice that his cancers were caught and he had surgery and treated. I’m going to make a little plug not that anyone’s asked me to, to the males in your audience to make sure to have your physical exam, yes your manual exam. That’s how Angus’ cancer was caught. It’s really important, it may not be comfortable, but have that physical exam gentleman, please.
Lisa:	I actually like that you put that plug in there. It’s very, very difficult to get people to see a doctor. It’s much more difficult to get men and to see a doctor and to convince them to have a physical exam. It’s like some sort of minor active gut. I second with that thoughts that you have.
Mary:	Thanks.
Lisa:	You’re looking forward in your work and also in your role, whatever that looks like with Angus’ current position. What are some of the things that you’re really hoping to see happen?
Mary:	It’s fun. The word pillow talk is sort of an old fashioned 1950s term. I don’t know if anyone in your listening audience knows there was actually a movie called “Pillow Talk.” When partners talk to each other at night and that’s maybe my biggest role is to kind of nudge Angus. I’m interested in what’s going on in Washington, I’m certainly better at news, reader and writer, still get the paper, newspaper at the house, and listen to the news on the radio.
	Maybe a little bit of a conscience, and again we’re so fortunate to live in Maine. People are sweet, people are polite, the people come up to me and this just happened a couple of days ago an issue that Angus has been involved in and had said, “I really wish you would come out on this one. I really wish you would change on this one.” That’s fine. I’m happy to pass on the message and say, “This person is saying what I’ve been saying so. It’s just not me.”
	Maybe part of my role is because I read newspapers and listen to the news. I’ll send Angus a text and say, “Someone, you, or someone in your staff, make sure you listen to this radio show today, or you might want to listen to the re-run of this.” I do save the newspapers and highlight them and flag them, and he thanks me. Maybe I can just be sort of an unpaid staffer.
Lisa:	What about your own work that you do?
Mary:	My own work in the simplest terms as I like, I work with the nonprofits. I like to stay helping them to move to the next level by connecting. I’ve learned and because of my 43 years in Maine and the various jobs that I’ve had, and that Angus’ had, I’ve had the privilege of meeting so many people around the state. What I like most to do with organizations or individuals and I’ve done some small businesses is brainstorm on, give some fresh ideas or some new outlook and then connecting people.
	I hope I can continue to work with nonprofits and connect them to individuals in other organizations that can make a difference and help them grow or change. It might mean growing, changing, merging, having a different look, but I like the challenge of helping somebody move or an organization move ahead.
Lisa:	Have you been involved with social causes pretty much the entirety of your life going around and fundraising for the Red Cross and the Red Feather with your mother? What are some things that you believe still need to happen? What are some social changes that you’re still really hoping will move forward?
Mary:	I’m really glad you asked. I’m very concerned about hunger, the current appropriate term is food and security and understanding the definition I’ve been to presentations. I’m very concerned about hunger, I’m very concerned about housing. I’m concerned about access to healthcare and affordable education. Those are the big ones that I … Access to education, moving backwards, access to education, safe housing, just that we can’t figure out a way and I’m sure people in your audience know the way.
	To have more affordable housing it may and I’m troubled by homelessness. I’m ashamed that we’re still struggling with homelessness and I applaud the work of the organizations like Preble Street and others that are doing everything they possibly can. It’s really worrisome. I’m repeating myself. I’ve learned a lot about veteran services and I hope we can do more and do better to address those individuals and their families that have served our country.
Lisa:	I would agree with you. We’ve had people on to talk about homelessness and someone who’s lived in Maine most of their life. It really saddens me to see the number of people just in Portland alone, but even in other parts of the state who very clearly don’t have access to a stable home environment and having worked with Share Our Strength and spent time with John Woods and the No Kid Hungry campaign.
	Really, it bothers me. It bothers me that we’ve come to this place and we’re so far along in so many areas, but some very basic needs are not getting that. Why do you think that is?
Mary:	Why do I think? I think maybe it’s hard to build affordable housing. Maybe we have too many regulations. Maybe we have too many layers. Maybe the banks can loosen up or the federal agencies. Obviously, you need money to build structures. I just wish there could be a way to speed along the processes.
	Lisa, if I may interrupt both of us, I’m also very troubled and saddened by the addiction crisis in Maine and I stand ready if anybody can find a role for me to step up and help between once I worked in a substance abuse agency and I represented substance abuse agencies at the legislature. I’ve mentioned to a couple of people, “I don’t know if there’s any role for me, but besides shouting from a rooftop for more treatment, more understanding,” I’ll add that to my list of things that I’m concerned about in my jerky conversation.
Lisa:	Wow, people who are listening, if you need Mary Herman to help you work on addiction issues, she’s ready.
Mary:	Yes. I wish I could do something.
Lisa:	What type of world do you hope that your children and your grandchildren will grow up in?
Mary:	A safer world. Yeah, I’m concerned about guns too. I’m going to a luncheon tomorrow related to the new referendum and I served on the advisory committee about gun safety. It’s a touchy topic in Maine and we’re lucky so far that we haven’t …
Lisa:	Mary is knocking on wood over here.
Mary:	Yeah, but I hope we can do something about gun sales in Maine.
Lisa:	One last question, I knew you worked for quite a while on the Wayfinder School which was the community schools and actually the part of the reason that we were able to get you in is through a connection that we had with Emma Wilson who also work with …
Mary:	Who I work with and is a dear friend.
Lisa:	Yes. Also with our now food editor Karen Watterson, Emma is the managing art director of the Portland Art Gallery, and Karen is the food editor here for Maine Magazine. You did a lot of work with them over a span of time and given the number of organizations that held your attention. What was it about that organization that kept you interested?
Mary:	I loved working with Wayfinder Schools which as Lisa knows as at the merge organization of what was Opportunity Farm in New Gloucester, a 300 acre, hundred year old organization. Treating at risk boys primarily and then eventually girls. Community School in Camden which is nearly 50 years old also working to support kids to complete high school in an expeditious way.
	These are great kids, these are good kids who struggled for a number of reasons. It could be family dysfunction, it could be geographical distance. There’s also the passages programs which serves pregnant and parenting teens which I love. Helping those young moms who want to complete a high school education because they want to be an educated person so that their child can have a healthy life. I believe I love what Wayfinder School stands for as far as helping kids complete a high school education.
	Many people say that, “Your high school diploma is your first ticket.” If you have that diploma then you can go on to the next challenges in life. The students at the school learn a lot, do a lot more than academic education. They learn how to be independent citizens and that’s really important as they’re launched into Maine.
Lisa:	I said I was going to ask one more question but this is really the last question. What do you do for fun?
Mary:	I’ve been skiing this winter. I got new skis. I took a ski lesson. I have to say it’s a plug for Sugar Wealth, they find me because my son works there. I know how hard they’ve been working. They worked really hard to make those trails work and is a sort of a very middling, low middling skier.
	I like to ski and I love doing yoga. I say to people, “I guess I’m addicted, I can’t explain why but there’s something about the opportunity to go to a yoga class.” Angus will say, “Why can’t you do it at home?” I’ll say, “I can do it at home but in yoga class, I’m in that room for one purpose. There’s no interruptions and no dog licking me,” and be with family. We love being together as a family.
	We watch football games together on Sunday afternoons. I try and take, help my daughter-in-law a little bit and take care of her watch my grand kids in Portland as often as I can. I think fun is being with family.
Lisa:	How can people find you as part of Mary Herman Consulting? What’s the best way to reach you?
Mary:	I have a LinkedIn page. You can find me Mary Herman. I have a website maryjherman.com. Thank you for asking. Maryjherman.com. Website that Nancy Marshall Communication staff did a great job on, I did not do my website. I did not do my LinkedIn page, so perhaps this is a plug for that other organization.
	Maryjherman.com is probably the best or find me on LinkedIn. I’m on Facebook as a person not as a business, but not the imitation Mary Herman. The Facebook that I am is the high school picture of black and white of Mary J. Herman in high school with a head band. There’s an imitation without a picture. If you’re looking for me on Facebook, I’m Mary J. Herman, black and white.
Lisa:	Very good. We’ve been speaking with former first lady, Mary Herman who is the principal at Mary Herman Consulting. I really appreciate your coming in and spending time with me to get today. It’s been really great to get the update on your life.
Mary:	Thank you for asking me and thank you Spencer.
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Lisa:	You’ve been listening to Love Maine Radio, show number 234, First Lady. Our guest has been Mary Herman. For more information on our guests and extended interviews, visit lovemaineradio.com. Love Maine Radio is downloadable for free on iTunes. For our preview of this week’s show, sign up for our e-news letter and like our Love Maine Radio Facebook page.
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	This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. We hope that you have enjoyed our First Lady Show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day, may you have a bountiful life. Here is an excerpt from a great interview we had with Shana Ready of the Ropes. Will be featured on an upcoming show.
	Did it help that you had parents who were doing their own thing, they had their own business, and now you have a husband who also is an entrepreneur, and he has his own business? Did it help to be surrounded by other people who are able to show you that it was possible if you believed in yourself to move forward?
Shana:	Yes, definitely. Although I would say my husband has a lobster business of his brother here in Maine, Ready Seafood and then my parents in the Old 40 and those are very different than what I do. It was inspiring to watch these people have their own business. Definitely you learn from things they’ve done, but my path was very different.
	I think that my experience in the cities in New York and in Boston really helped me focus on fashion point of what I do. I don’t think that I just make a real bracelet, I think I have created a style with the bracelet. I don’t know how to describe it. It’s a look that, I don’t know.
Lisa:	I think that’s a really good point because it’s not … I like reading your quotes on Instagram, but I also equally like seeing what you do with the bracelets and seeing where the bracelets appear because you will pair a bracelet with a pair of jeans, but you also pair it with something more tropical. Your bracelets actually have been picked up by media outlets around the country.
	Other people are agreeing with you that these bracelets really are the, I don’t know, focal point.
Shana:	Yes, I think it’s interesting. Somehow, people can relate to them, it speaks to people I think because the materials are used are so basic and people can just relate. I think that there’s something really nice about the jocks, the position of putting this chunky bracelet on, but having a little black dress on and going to a cocktail party. You’re dressed up but you’re not forgetting who you are or you’re making a statement with this chunky piece of jewelry that is nice, I think.
Lisa:	It’s very Maine. I’ve been astounded by how popular bean boots and flannel shirts have become over the last few years, because I grew up wearing these. I was also a child of the 80s. That’s just what we wore, but it wasn’t because the rest of the world wore it. There’s something that’s very grounding about Maine and how we choose to live our lives. It doesn’t mean we can’t be fancy. We’re just this interesting combination. We can wear a little black dress and our Bean Boots and our real bracelet.
Shana:	Yeah, it’s true. I think there’s something really nice and rugged about Maine and you have to, I don’t know, I call it Mainerize. I always think, I look at all this fashion stuff and I’m like, “Would that work in Maine?” “I don’t know.” Definitely, if I were still living in a city and going out to these fancy parties, I could wear that, but it’s like you have to think about what I’m doing here in Maine and whether or not that’s going to work with your look.
Lisa:	Your bracelets also have some really great colors. I think I bought the first Ropes bracelets that I bought were actually in that little store there. Two of them had bright fluorescent colors, because I was giving them to my teenage daughter and my younger daughter at the time. You’ve been able to make really interesting variations on a theme.
Shana:	Yes, I love color. I get really inspired by color. I feel like it has endless possibilities, any way you combine different color I think it’s really beautiful. I like to give the people that wore my bracelets a reason to keep buying them. The only bracelet that I am committed to I feel like is my anniversary bracelet, my five year anniversary bracelet. I wanted a bracelet that would go with everything and that was why it was so neutral and it was just the two mixed metals and that worked.
	Then I feel like that will always be on the line, but then the other bracelets, the colors will change through the seasons, which I think keeps my customers entertained, but it also keeps me inspired and entertained. It keeps things interesting for me.
Speaker 1:	Love Maine Radio is made possible with the support of Maine Magazine, Berlin City Honda, Macpage, Boone’s Fish House & Oyster Room, and the Apothecary By Design. Audio production and original music have been provided by Spencer Albee. Our editorial producer is Kelly Chase. Our assistant producer is Emily Davis. Our community development manager is Casey Lovejoy and our executive producers are Kevin Thomas, Susan Grisanti, and Dr. Lisa Berlisle.
	For more information on our host production team, Maine Magazine or any of the guest featured here today, visit us at lovemaineradio.com.