Transcription of Entertaining Maine #265
Speaker 1: You are listening to Love Maine Radio, hosted by Dr. Lisa Belisle and recorded at the studios of Maine Magazine in Portland. Dr. Lisa Belisle is a writer and physician who practices family medicine and acupuncture in Brunswick, Maine. Show summaries are available at lovemaineradio.com. Here are some highlights from this week’s program.
George: I think that actually eased my… I was never star struck by anyone. It’s interesting to see some of these people, they get nervous around and don’t know how to act and it was an easier transition to work with these people but I wasn’t star struck by them so it was more like we were … What was the word, not companions …
Lisa: Peers?
George: Contemporaries. Thank you, and peers. More so than being nervous about working with someone and not doing … Letting those nerves affect what you’re doing.
Carol: We had our tenth anniversary in August so it’s pretty amazing. If I’d ever thought I would say Lyle Lovett and Aaron Neville would be in my backyard, I would think you were crazy but everybody else thought we were crazy and we did do it I guess.
Lisa: This is Dr. Lisa Belisle and you are listening to Love Maine Radio, Show #265, Entertaining Maine, airing for the first time on Sunday, October 16, 2016. Maine is home to a broad diversity of talented artists, actors and musicians. Today, we speak with two individuals who are not only accomplished artists in their own right but have also made it their mission to bring other talented people to our home state. George Dvorsky is an actor and entertainer who is also the creative director for Vinegar Hill Music Theater which is completing its first season. Carol Noonan is a national recording artist and singer-songwriter who co-founded and runs Stone Mountain Art Center in Brownfield. Thank you for joining us.
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Lisa: People who are longtime listeners of Love Maine Radio know that I love music and it’s always fun to have people in the studio with me who feel exactly the same way and actually this individual George Dvorsky has taken his love of music to a whole new level. George Dvorksy is an accomplished actor and entertainer who brings deep and diverse experience with him to Vinegar Hill Music Theater. He was appointed creative director in March 2016 for the venue’s inaugural season. George has starred in numerous Broadway, off-Broadway, and regional productions across the country. New England audiences will know him from his extensive work at the Cape Playhouse, Maine State Music Theater, North Shore Music Theater and the Ogunquit Playhouse and there’s so much more to talk about with you but thanks so much for coming in.
George: Thanks. My pleasure. Good to be here.
Lisa: Tell me what it’s like to be really devoted to music and have your life be all about music and singing and bringing music to the greater public.
George: My mom said I sang before I spoke which is interesting because I stuttered as a kid. Spoke when I sang, it was kind of like the Mel Tillis thing. I would talk and stutter but I would sing and it would be clear. Music has always been a part of me. It’s funny because some people will say … My brother-in-law said, “Why don’t you sing all the time?” I said, “Because it’s just so much innate and it’s so much a part of me that I don’t … When it’s your job and a part of your life, you don’t always just do it.”
Lisa: It’s interesting that there’s probably some singing that’s going on internally even as you’re not …
George: Yes.
Lisa: Even as you’re talking.
George: That’s a good point and actually there is. I hear music all the time. If I sit still, I like to have some music in the background. Quiet doesn’t really work for me. There’s gotta be some music in my life all the time.
Lisa: Were your parents musical?
George: My father sang in a barbershop quartet in the service. He was in the army for a while and I think that was basically … My mom, she would say she had no musical talent but I would hear her singing. When I’d go home I’d put some music on and I’d hear her singing in the kitchen. She could sing but my dad was the singer, and I’m the youngest of five and every one has played an instrument and/or basically sung but I’m the only one that really took it and ran with it.
Lisa: What part if you were going to be in a barbershop quartet, what part would you be?
George: Interesting you asked. Years ago, I sang tenor and when I first started out in this business, I wanted to be a pop tenor. I was out in LA and doing demos and Warner Bros. Records was interested in me for having the really high stuff recorded that they didn’t have anyone else to do. Then I came back to New York and this coach I found said “You’re really a lyric baritone.” I developed my lower register. I’m lucky that I have both to draw from but I would say now just because I’m getting older … As Ronan Tynan said, “It’s easier to be a baritone at this late stage of the game.” I’m a lyric baritone by name.
Lisa: Tell me, what is a lyric baritone?
George: You’ve got the heaviness of a baritone. Most tenor voices have a lighter timbre to them and they can get up into those top notes. I can still get those top notes but I don’t want to sit up there. If I can go up, hit them and come back down and then sit in the lower register for a while, it’s much easier. For those musicians out there.
Lisa: I think it’s an interesting conversation to have because I know there’s enough people with enough musical background that many people will understand soprano, alto, baritone. I don’t know, tenor is sort of above baritone, is that right?
George: Yes. Yeah.
Lisa: Baritone and then bass.
George: Yeah, you’ll go bass, baritone, tenor for the three, and then a countertenor which is kind of like a mezzo for a woman. Countertenors are so high you sometimes confuse them with a lower mezzo voice for a woman.
Lisa: It’s interesting what those of us who know a little bit about music, what we understand is the divisions but you’re saying that there’s an even greater breakdown.
George: Yes. It’s funny to watch the singing competition shows and you hear some of the “stars” talking about a woman singing in falsetto. A woman doesn’t sing in falsetto. Men have a falsetto. Women have a head voice and that’s their natural voice. Falsetto means a false or a fake vibration of the chords and that’s what men … If you go up here, that’s falsetto for a guy, but for a woman, that would be her head voice. It’s technical but sometimes watching The Voice and American Idol, I go, “That’s not what it really is.”
Lisa: How has it been for you to work with the Vinegar Hill Music Theater in a really different capacity? You’ve been a performer for such a long time.
George: Yes, in musical theater. A lot of people have called, when this was announced I was doing it, a lot of friends of mine from New York and around the area actually sent me scripts for their musicals or their plays and I said even though it said it’s a music theater, it’s actually a concert venue. Growing up with so much music and being a child of the 70s, my listening is very eclectic. Growing up, I was a huge … I’m an Olivia Newton-John stocker. When I finally met her, I was so excited but I’ve listened to her from the day she sang her first note until now. She’s actually recording things now that people don’t even know about. Just the diversity of my family and what we listen to with five of us being so different. My parents had …. We grew up listening to movie soundtracks, not cast albums, so it was interesting for me when I went and moved to New York and met some of the legendary stars, I didn’t know who they were so much because I knew …
For instance, John Raitt. I worked with John Raitt at Ogunquit Playhouse. He was the original Billy Bigelow in Carousel. I was used to listening to Gordon MacRae. Meeting Gordon MacRae and Shirley Jones, those were the people that I listened to and tried to emulate whereas John was just a friend of mine and I knew he’s a Broadway star but he was just a good friend. I think that actually eased my… I was never star struck by anyone. It’s interesting to see some of these people, they get nervous around them and don’t know how to act and it was an easier transition to work with these people but I wasn’t star struck by them so it was more like we were … What was the word, not companions …
Lisa: Peers?
George: Contemporaries, thank you, and peers. More so than being nervous about working with someone and not doing … Letting those nerves affect what you’re doing. It was an easier transition for me. However, when I did work with Gordon MacRae, I’ll never forget this, we did Paint Your Wagon in Sacramento Music Circus and I sat on stage, I was Jake Whippany, and he sang Maria and I thought, “Here’s this kid from Irwin, Pennsylvania sitting on stage with Gordon MacRae five feet away from me singing this glorious song.” I thought, who gets to … I’m a lucky guy who gets to realize those kind of dreams in their lifetime.
Lisa: You’re talking about something that I think for many people can be very almost transcendent to hear the right music and by right I just mean sort of the resonant music from the person who seems to be able to bring it to life most effectively. It’s something that we share with others really effectively. Is that one of the reasons that you like doing what you’re doing now with Vinegar Hill?
George: Yes. I was gonna say I didn’t answer your original question. Thanks for circling back to that. Having the background, I do have a musical theater but also having the pop part of my life growing up, I think that’s why I was looking forward to taking on this job because I could bring in the acts that I knew of or were familiar with or knew about just peripherally to bring them into Vinegar Hill and have them show the rest of the community what great talent and musicians that they are. That’s been the fun part, booking this talent and having people … Having people say, “How did you get these people?” A lot of them were friends. I called on favors. There were some people who actually reached out to us because they heard about what a great venue it was. It’s just been fun to have the diversity of so many different kinds of talent and we have some speakers, we have some comedians. It’s just been fun to get as much … It’s kind of like throwing things at a wall and see what sticks. It’s been fascinating and interesting and fun.
Lisa: Vinegar Hill is literally a brand new venue this year. Before that, it’s had a long, long history as something else.
George: It’s on the Smith Sisters’ farm. That’s what this piece of land is and the Smith Sisters in the early 1900s, the barn was actually a mile down the road. They dismantled it, put it on horse and buggy, brought it down to the house, reconstructed it, and it’s been there since the early 1900s. In 1989, Adrian Grant bought it to make it the Arundel Barn Playhouse. It was a non-equity summer stock theater for nineteen years, eighteen seasons, and then Tim Harrington and Deb Lennon bought it last fall and now it’s the Vinegar Hill Music Theater. People ask how it got that name. That part of land, there was a farmer further down the road that was on a grade, I’m not gonna say a hill but on a grade, and he had a bunch of apple trees and he put all the apples in barrels, let them sit too long, the apples turned to cider, they dumped them out and the vinegar ran down the hill, hence the name Vinegar Hill.
Lisa: That’s a great story.
George: That’s the legend of it.
Lisa: It’s not that far away from Kennebunk and Kennebunkport.
George: Six miles.
Lisa: Yeah.
George: Exactly.
Lisa: When I think of the Vinegar Hill Music Theater, it seems like it would be kind of out in the country and it is a little bit but it’s really … It’s right there. It’s right next to this …
George: Yes, Kennebunkport, Kennebunk, and Arundel make a triangle basically. There is no downtown Arundel. It’s funny because John Michael Coppola who was the Frankie Valli part of the Four C-Notes, our opening act. His thank you said, “I hope you support this theater. It’s the jewel of Arundel.” The audience all laughed and he said, “What? What? What did I say wrong?” I explained to him later Arundel’s a township. There’s no real downtown area as there is in Kennebunk and Kennebunkport.
Lisa: It was also … I believe that the author, Kenneth Roberts, originally wrote about Arundel and Arundel was the greater name for this entire area. There is a lot of history.
George: Yes, in fact, I wrote the article in our music notes, [or just 00:13:43] our playbill, and I did some research about the … We wanted to do music or the arts through the history of Kennebunk and Kennebunkport and Arundel. There was an Arundel Opera Theater and there was also the Kennebunkport Playhouse. It was rich in history for the arts in the area so we hope we’re just carrying that on.
Lisa: Who have you had this past summer?
George: Ronan Tynan, an amazing sold-out show. Linda Eder blew the roof off the place. Frenchie Davis from American Idol, she did an amazing show. The biggest surprise I will say was John Davidson. I’d known John for years and he and I, our paths have crossed before we even knew each other. The only time I was in People Magazine, John was on the cover. I was cast in the … I did the Best Little Whorehouse in Texas National Tour. That’s why we were in People Magazine. I stayed in LA for a year after we had closed. My mom and my sister and my brother-in-law came to visit and for some reason, I don’t remember how we got tickets to the John Davidson show. He replaced Mike Douglas in his talk show. I’ve always been aware of who John was and my mom always loved him and we had the Hollywood squares thing and then that’s incredible.
I’d got cast in the off-Broadway production of The Fantasticks and they were advertising Aaron Carter who was a teen pop idol. I thought it would be fun to go into the show. I’m sitting there watching the show before I started rehearsals and John Davidson walked out and I thought, “Oh my god. I’m gonna be working with John Davidson.” I started rehearsal and you’d go into the show a week later, he and I became fast friends so when he found out that I was doing this, he called and said, “I’d like to do my show up there.” I thought he would stand with a guitar and sing. I booked him on July 10th, a Sunday night. I was so proud of him and so blown away by the talent. He’s 75 years old now and we had about … I forget how many people were actually there but there were people that just came thinking, “Let’s just come and see what the venue is.”
I’ve had people say if they had to pick their top 10 shows, he’d be in the top 3. It was one of those old stars that they don’t make anymore and I know that sounds cliché but it’s actually true. The whole studio system of people that they … John was at the end of that and to see him, he didn’t just sing, he performed that night. It was fascinating to see him hold the audience in the palm of his hand and be [able to 00:16:23] temper what he was doing and see the audience go with him. It was fascinating to watch and like I said, people have said they would come back to see him in an instant. He’ll be back by popular demand.
Lisa: It seems to me that the best performers and maybe there aren’t many of them, maybe you’re saying that this is the old fashioned kind of performer, are the ones who don’t just go out and offer a show. They interact with the audience. They read the audience. There’s an energy that goes back and forth and people leave feeling differently than when they came in.
George: Yes. I did a show off Broadway in 2000 called Pete ‘n’ Keely. We were a fictional couple but it was kind of like a Steve and Eydie type duo and Pete ‘n’ Keely were bigger than Frank and Judy and Steve and Eydie and then we got divorced because our lives did not gel like we thought. We had separate careers that tanked so we were brought back together for one night on NBC sponsored by Swell Shampoo for the Pete and Keely reunion special. That was the show. It was kind of like Kiss Me, Kate in the way that you saw us on stage and off stage so during commercial breaks we’d have fights. They’d say 3, 2, 1, “Hi, we’re back and this is my …”
They thought to boost business to bring in three old stars and asked them to do their acts from 1968. The last one was Charo. I was excited to meet Charo only because of who Charo was and growing up watching Charo. It was fascinating to watch her temper her act from 1968 to a matinee audience. She actually slowed some things down, because it’s an older audience and she just … You could see her temper what she needed to do. Got the same reaction for each show for an older more hip audience or an older matinee audience to watch her temper the same exact show but get the same reaction from different audiences. It was fascinating. That’s what John did, just to see him perform and if he felt it was slipping, he would just bring them right back up.
Because those people were so well-rounded. They were trained in a way that schools are not training kids today. It’s fascinating to watch kids coming into the business and see that they’re not getting what the old stars did. That’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.
Lisa: I think it’s actually … It’s something that I think about a lot because I believe that there’s this performance aspect of what’s going on now. I think it’s great that we have YouTube and we have ways that we can push ourselves out into the world but when we are instead of just pushing ourselves out there and saying, “Look at me, here I am, here’s my selfie,” if we are able to actually have a back and forth with people, then that really raises the conversation to a different level.
George: Right.
Lisa: I think that that’s the piece that if we could really get to that, that would make everything richer for all involved.
George: Yes. Also, I think because of social media where it is now, the show Glee, which I was a huge fan of, but I think everyone thought they could be stars. The studio system wasn’t that way. You worked your way up and you had start from the bottom and pay your dues to get to where those people ended up and I think that’s been inverted in some ways. People want to just be a star instead of doing the work. It’s funny because people have said to me, “What was your goal?” I said, “I wanted to be in my 40s and 50s and be respected and work all the time.” I reached that and thought, “Now I should have gone a higher aspiration.” It’s about the work and making the work speak for itself and not just being a star. A lot of people get confused by that. I went to Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh back in 1994 There were really five schools that would kick people into the business. It was NYU, Julliard, Carnegie Mellon, Cincinnati Conservatory of Music was coming up, and Northwestern. There were five schools. There were only ten in my class, only four people graduated. They would weed you out.
It’s fascinating now that every college has an arts program that they say is so great and they’re kicking all these kids. Now, what used to be maybe 20 people coming into the business every May when they graduated, there’s now a couple of thousand, probably tens of thousands because every school has these arts programs and they can just come in and … The jobs are not there for everyone coming into the business now. That’s why it’s gotten so tough. A lot of the kids don’t have the training that is really needed to make it. The business is so strange too. They can get a break, have a hit show and then they don’t work for the next 20 years. It’s such a fickle, bizarre business. You have to have it in your blood unfortunately. People say to me, “What do you tell kids?” I say, “If you have an option, take it. If you want to go into show business but you also want to be a doctor, be the doctor because it has to be everything in your system to want to do this. If you have any doubt, don’t do it.”
Lisa: I love what you’re saying because it actually jives with something that I feel very deeply and that is that anything that one wants to do, there is something that happens over time, maybe it’s the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours, there’s something that happens when you sit within whatever it is you’re doing, whether you’re a singer, whether you’re a classical pianist, whether you’re a writer, whether you’re a doctor. Really, there’s something that comes about by kind of … I don’t know, I don’t want to say struggling with, sometimes it’s struggling with but working with whatever it is. You’re right, yeah, on one hand, you could be the person who gets a break but then even if you are the person who gets a break, haven’t you maybe missed out on that opportunity to work with whatever it is that you love?
George: Yes. That’s another thing I would say to someone, if you have a job. I think it was John Gilgood said “Never turn a job down. Only turn a job down if there’s a conflict.” If nothing’s going on and it truly is there’s no small roles, there’s only small actors because you never know where doing a small role in something will lead to the next. Networking is huge in this business and that’s because I did work regionally and traveled the country and traveled the world actually doing concerts, just having your name out there and getting people to know that they can call on you. A friend of mine had done a chorus line for five years and then Cats for seven and when his body was breaking down and said, “I’ve got to leave the business,” he said, “I’ve just been on Broadway for seven years. Now what do I do?” It was interesting to think he didn’t have the contacts that I had made traveling so much and I could call people and say, “You know, is there something that I can do in your show or …” Networking is huge in this business and I think the more that you do and the more that you learn, whether it be small or large, it really just builds in the momentum of your path.
Lisa: What it is about Maine do you think that makes us want to come here in the summer and engage in … Whether it’s being in the orchestra up at Bowdoin College or doing summer stock or I know that there are ballet camps around the state or even just being an artist. Well, not just being an artist but being an artist.
George: It’s funny. The arts community is huge up here and I was pleased and surprised to see that. My first experience up here was with the Ogunquit Playhouse in 1987. To see how they have changed that theater because it was truly a two week summer stock theater when I started working there and now it’s a viable great regional theater and then working up at Maine State with Bowdoin College and seeing … It’s just, I think the summer aspect of coming to a great place is, and the vibe up here, it’s palpable of all the arts. I think that’s what attracts people. Does that make sense?
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, it does. I think about some of the … I don’t know, most meaningful times I ever had in the summer were actually at the Maine State Music Theater for example because that’s where I happened to live was Yarmouth so we would go up there and we would watch a summer show. I can even feel it as I’m talking to you now, feel what that was like to be there in the summer, in that theater, watching the actors up on the stage.
George: It’s a great energy and people are thrilled to be here and as simple as it does sound, to get out of New York City in the summer is a blessing. To have this kind of…. These venues where you can come to a beautiful place first of all and do quality work, like I said, the vibe is palpable. Truly, I’ve never seen anything I thought, “That wasn’t very good.” Because you want to do it and you want to be here, it makes the show that much stronger.
Lisa: Do you have exciting coming up for 2017? Are you already working on that schedule?
George: I’ve created a folder on my computer called Talent Search because with the success thus far of the theater, a lot of agents have contacted me with new acts and the people who have been here have talked already. I’m not sure when we’re reopening yet but there will be a full season practically already just from the folder I have of people who want to come here.
Lisa: How late in the fall does Vinegar Hills start closing?
George: We are closing October 8th this year. It’s not winterized. It’s funny because people come in and say, “Why aren’t you going later?” I said, “See that crack in that board right there? Snow will be coming in there.” The new air conditioning system does have heat but to keep it going all … We’re gonna go until October 8th and see how that works. Hopefully go longer into the year further down the line but for now, we’re closing October 8th and we reopen probably some time next June. I’m surmising that, we haven’t discussed it yet.
Lisa: I enjoyed the time that I spent at the Vinegar Hill Music Theater and I encourage people to go to the website for Vinegar Hill which we will have on our show notes page. I think that you’ve had a broad variety of really interesting people coming in for this season and it sounds like 2017 will be no different, really.
George: Yes. It’s funny because I talked to someone last night at a cookout about this. You could bring the people back you’ve already had because some of the shows have sold out and bring them back by popular demand. There were so many people that couldn’t get in. For instance, on Saturday night, The Drifters. We actually, I had booked Larry Gatlin for the 20th of August and he has to have back surgery. His recovery time was right in his date so we tried to find something in October, it didn’t work with his side or our side. I said “We’ll get him in 2017” but I had to find something that would have the same name recognition. A friend of mine, one of the agents said, “How about The Drifters?” I thought, “Oh my god. To have The Drifters here.” They sold out immediately, as soon as I announced it. Ronan Tynan said, “You should have booked me for two nights.” I said, “Who knew? We were thrilled to have you one night.” I think maybe next year we can also do more than one night because people have been saying when you see a show, you want to talk about it, and then just suddenly, it goes away that next day. Maybe we will do two and three night engagements because a lot of people, it could support that.
Lisa: I appreciate your coming in and talking with me today. I hope that people will go to the show notes page and learn more about the Vinegar Hill Music Theater. We have been speaking with George Dvorsky who is an accomplished actor and entertainer in his own right who brings a deep and diverse experience with him to the Vinegar Hill Music Theater. Thanks for coming in today.
George: My pleasure.
Lisa: I enjoyed our conversation.
George: This was fun. I enjoyed it.
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Lisa: It’s always my great pleasure to speak with people whose names I have known for quite a while although they obviously don’t know my name. In this case, this is Carol Noonan who is an American folk singer and songwriter who along with her husband Jeff Flagg, a commercial fishing net builder, runs the Stone Mountain Art Center, which is a music hall behind their house in Brownfield, Maine. Thanks for coming in.
Carol: Thank you for having me.
Lisa: I first heard about you because you were the lead singer and songwriter for the band Knots and Crosses and you were a big deal. You are a big deal still but that, I remember this very vividly.
Carol: I think I was a bigger deal then. I’m just bigger now. It was a great time. We got signed to a big record deal and we had that kind of whirlwind thing that happens to musicians, or what they hope happens to them. It’s been an interesting path to where we are now. They are always short-lived, those label deals and I’m glad I always kept it in perspective and was always looking ahead to the next thing because you need to do that. You’re a musician. Obviously, most musicians know that but it’s … Having a music hall now behind our house is such a funny way to kind of … Probably towards the end of my career, I’m almost 60. I’m not going out on tour. I did still just do a record but I feel like I’m towards the end. I didn’t want to be touring and just doing the same old thing. I’m kind of taking everything I ever did in my life seems to be being used now in this job that I’ve got now which is kinda interesting.
Lisa: You’re from an Irish family. Tell me about that family background. What do you know of your family?
Carol: They’re from the Cork area, County Cork, and my dad was a building wrecker and my mom was a stay-at-home mom, five kids. I went to Catholic school for twelve years and I had that kind of typical upbringing. I always could sing so I went to a [inaudible 00:32:04] conservatory and kind of got that taste of the arts and the city life because I’d never really had that growing up. We really weren’t an artsy family by any means. We were very blue collar but I was always drawn to folk music and my brothers and sisters had those records and I listened to them. That was kind of how I got started in it. I was kind of this normal kid but I could sing. It was kind of a weird start. I quickly decided I wanted to do music in some way.
Lisa: Were your parents from County Cork or their family?
Carol: No, no. No. We’re American-Irish. No, I laugh when you said …
Lisa: You’re from Peabody.
Carol: Yeah, we’re from Peabody. My grandparents came off the boat. It was a very normal kind of Peabody lifestyle. I came to Maine when I was 19 at [inaudible 00:33:10] Resort which is over in center level Maine and fell in love with the area and I ended up working there for ten years and staying in the area and I just fell in love with that part of Maine. It’s a really beautiful part. The lakes and the mountains. It’s kind of my favorite part of Maine. I feel like sometimes it’s the forgotten part. Everything’s so focused on the coast sometimes, especially the arts. It was really important that we opened a place that was year round so that we would have it all the time, not just in the summertime. That was kind of where we ended up.
Lisa: I guess the reason I keep perseverating, if that’s the word, the Irish thing is because that my mom’s side of the family is Irish and I actually have a cousin Kathleen who looks remarkably … There’s a resemblance there. It is her side of the family that really seems to have more of the musicality. I know that the Irish music, it has its own very different and very specific sound to it. I wonder how much of that actually does translate into the music you yourself have performed, written.
Carol: I think it’s definitely in it. My dad listened to Irish music constantly. That’s all we heard in the house. We heard The Irish Hour every Saturday and he had his Irish records down in the basement. We heard that a lot. Of course, I hated it as a kid. You know, I couldn’t stand it. He belonged to the AOH and he was always dragging me down there to sing Danny Boy at some bean supper or corned beef dinner or whatever it was. I kind of hated it then but when I started getting into music and writing my own, all those melodies and that redundant kind of way the music flowed started creeping into my own music too and I had been listening to folk music which has tons of that influence in it. It was definitely a strong influence, whether I liked it or not and the older I got, the more I embrace. You know, you embrace what you hated when you were a kid. You wish you would remember that. You wish you would know that when you’re a kid.
Lisa: We all have to kind of reject where we came from before we could circle back around and kind of be comfortable with it.
Carol: Exactly. Although I don’t think I’m gonna go back to Peabody. I’ll embrace some of it but not too much of it.
Lisa: I was listening to your album before you came in, Raven Girl. The cover art is beautiful and the music itself is sort of … It’s interesting, it’s haunting. There’s something that’s really … It’s very lyrical but there’s something that’s wistful, haunting, there’s something about it that is different than many albums.
Carol: Their music was very haunting, Richard and Mimi Farina wrote most of the songs that are on the album and Tonee Harbert did the cover. He’s a local photographer that I love and he’s done most of my record covers. I really wanted to capture that part of, Mimi especially, I just felt like she was a haunting kind of presence and their story is so tragic and I just loved that. When I was listening to it as a kid, I really never listened to lyrics. I didn’t understand what it was about. I wasn’t really drawn to that part of it, I was drawn to the melodies. It definitely affected how I wrote my own music later on and what I liked. I love dark melodies, I love minor keys and they just had this kind of beautiful original way of doing harmony that nobody else was doing. It was hard to do the record and figure out where the melody was. They always sang together throughout the whole … It was never a backup part or … He would come in on the chorus or anything like that. They sang together throughout the whole song so sometimes it’s really hard to tell what the actual melody was. Maybe there wasn’t, maybe they wrote it together. I just don’t know.
When I did my versions of the songs, I did the best I could to pick out what I felt was the more dominant melody in the songs and changed it a little bit as far as how we approached the arrangements but it would be interesting if somebody knew what it was supposed to be but I guess that’s what’s great about interpreting music. There’s no rules there.
Lisa: You’ve had some pretty big names out in Brownfield. You’ve been doing this for how long now?
Carol: We had our 10th anniversary in August. It’s pretty amazing. If I’d ever thought I would say Lyle Lovett and Aaron Neville would be in my backyard, I would think you were crazy but everybody else thought that we were crazy and we did do it I guess. It’s been great. It’s kind of a rest bit for artists which was a thing I really wanted to do. I wanted it to be special for artists and for the audience. It’s definitely different. It’s a little frozen in time. We’re not on Facebook. We’re not connected socially like everybody else is. We’re just kind of up there in the middle of nowhere and when people drive up, I’m still shocked that they drive up the road and they come and when the room fills up, it is kind of that “Oh my god. What were we thinking and how lucky did we get that they actually did come.” Because this could have been a really stupid idea I guess.
I think the bigger shows, that was always something I wanted to do was bring big artists to a small room so you would get to see them in that original way of seeing them perform, when they used to play small rooms and small clubs. Because you get to see their hands and their face and they talk to the audience in a way they don’t do in a big room because you just can’t. It’s a very different experience to see those kinds of artists up close. It’s been awesome and they really love it and they love the way we’ve made sure that they have what they need and there’s nothing there. We have everything from batteries to … Anything they could need. Any rolaids. Just everywhere they go, there’s baskets of little pockets of things that they might have to stop at a store for but we’ve got for them and we feed them like crazy and they come back. That’s the whole idea.
Lisa: I’ve been out to Brownfield, believe it or not, many times. We used to go regularly to the Sacopee Valley. We used to go on the Saco River. You’re right, there isn’t really a lot out there but it was really very beautiful. I remember, there’s a lot of fields and trees, and then there are these bodies of water that just kind of spring up and there’s something very peaceful about it in a way that doesn’t seem frenetic like the coasts can be sometimes?
Carol: Yeah. I love the coast. It’s not us versus the coast but it has got … I think more people are living there year-round. I think just the economy in those rural towns versus the coastal economy, it’s different. The people that are coming to our place are also working in our hospitals and our stores and I always say there’s a carpenter for every tree in Brownfield. Everybody’s a carpenter. Everybody that works there, that lives there is kind of the same class too. I think financially, people are closer in their income bracket than a lot of towns in Maine. It’s not that extreme like some towns in Maine. There’s a feel there that’s kind of normal, that’s kind of constant. It doesn’t get that changed by the seasons or the tourist seasons. It was really important to me, when I would come off the road, there would be nothing to do in the area unless we came to Portland or traveled. I often would rent …
I used to rent this church nearby and do a Christmas concert and I thought, “You know, I can’t be so great that people are coming to see me every year for this stupid thing. They’re coming because there’s nothing else to do. It’s Saturday night. It’s near their house and they’re coming.” It just made me feel like in rural towns, you have to make your own kind of world and your own entertainment. They do in many ways, that’s what the Grange halls have always done and those kinds of places … I did want to take it a step further. I wanted really great music to come up to our area in a special way. I hope I’ve done that and I think we have. It’s really become a tourist place too. I would say 75% of our audience is coming from outside of Maine which is kind of amazing. Lots of Massachusetts folks coming up for the weekend to see an artist they love in this way. I’m hoping it also helps the local economy. It’s getting people in hotels and restaurants and that kind of thing. Hopefully it’s a trickle-down place too.
Lisa: What type of feedback do you get from the artists who come out and perform with you?
Carol: They really love it. It’s not like any place else and they know everybody. The big artists that have come back remember people’s names. They have a routine. When Bela Fleck comes, he always says, “Did you make the veggie chili?” They remember the food or they remember how they’re taken care of. They say it on stage and I Think they really mean it. Artists always say, “Hey, we love Brownfield.” There’s a way that they speak about our place that’s so moving. When we had our 10th anniversary, lots of them sent us little clips and little photos just saying “We love Brownfield” and “We love Stone Mountain”. They’re more involved with us I think than most venues. When Mavis Staples comes, it’s like our aunt is here to visit. Every time she comes, she calls me up on stage and I end up singing a tune with her which if I died tomorrow, I would have already done such a great thing in my life and that would be it. That would be like the thing you’d just … Okay, I’m good. I can go now because singing with her and being involved with her and she’ll come out on stage and say hi to everybody and thank everybody and remember my mom and remember my sisters that were only there a couple of times when she was there.
It’s a very personal experience for the artist when they come to us and they talk about it a lot. We hear other artists that come see us for the first time say, “We’ve been hearing about this place for a year. We’ve been on the road and that’s all we ever hear about.” That’s great, when they’re talking about you all over the country. That’s pretty cool, when you’re in Brownfield, that’s very cool.
Lisa: Is there something about Maine that brings the music to life?
Carol: I think there’s something about Maine. Certainly we could never have done this anywhere else. We always say that. Only in Maine could you do something like this place because there’s things like this all over in Maine. Unique businesses, unique little spots that are unlikely but I think Maine people are so up for anything and they’re independent and if they decide they want to create something, they just do it. It doesn’t matter where they are. I love that. That’s my favorite thing about Maine. I think that that kind of independent spirit always brings out the best in the arts. It always goes hand in hand and I think musically, when you’re treated well, when you have a good experience, a show is always better. I always say our shows with artists I’ve seen, a lot of the artists that come, I’ve already seen quite a bit or been on tour and seen them on … Been on festivals with them or seen them out.
They do different shows at our place and I don’t think it’s just us. I think coming to this environment and feeling good about where you are just makes you play a great show. If you’re happy, you’re gonna do a great show. If you’re not, the show is gonna be dialed in. No artist ever really does a bad show most of the time I think. It’s a job just like everybody else’s job and sometimes there are good nights and bad nights but generally, I think when they’re inspired, the music shows and they certainly do that in our place and I bet they do it at a lot of places in Maine.
Lisa: In order to do the work that you do, you have to be willing to be really … Everything. You have to be the chief cook and bottle washer as my mom used to say. I’m wondering if as a girl from Peabody who went to the New England Conservatory if you ever had a sense that this would be your lot in life to be a musician, a singer, a songwriter who also took care of all of these other singer-songwriter musician entertainers who came to perform.
Carol: You know, like most musicians, I grew up working restaurants. It was a normal transition. I was lucky enough to be able to have a music career after working restaurants. That’s always what you’re striving for but it never leaves you. I always say I’m so uniquely qualified for the job I’m doing now because it’s taken every single aspect of everything I’ve ever done in my life and put it in one place. It’s where I live, it’s who I married, it’s everything. I do shows there occasionally but most of the time, I’m the chef, I book the acts, I arrange everything. I do pretty much everything. It’s a lot of work. I didn’t probably see myself working so hard at this age. It’s probably the hardest I’ve ever worked in my life. It’s also, it’s so great, I’m in my own bed every night instead of being away from home and I get to hear all this great music and we have the best staff in the world.
Just being around them and having that experience of this family of people that we’ve had for a long time. Most of the staff has been there from the beginning. Just having that relationship has been so great at this point in my life to have all these young people around us that are so dear to us. We don’t have children, maybe that’s the closest thing we will ever experience as far as the children thing goes because they are kind of like kids. It wasn’t what I saw myself doing but it was definitely a natural progression to do it. I was definitely getting tired of playing gigs. I just felt like musically, I wasn’t enjoying it. I didn’t feel like the venues were presenting music well anymore. That was another reason I wanted to do it. I felt like even the big venues weren’t … Nobody was owner operated anymore and that makes a big difference when outside promoters are presenting shows in rooms. It just changes the feel of it. Not that it’s bad, it’s just different and I just felt like I wanted to do it a little off the grid and a little more human, I guess.
Lisa: As I’m listening, I’m really interested in this idea that you happen to be almost in the right place at the right time for this type of venture that I think people have really been hungering and thirsting for these authentic intimate experiences with the people that create music. These promoters and the big acts, those obviously still exist and it’s kind of like the parallel universe but we’ve now come to a place where people want to get their hands in the dirt again. They want to do their own gardening, their own cooking, they really want to live this richer life.
Carol: I think they want that in every kind of business too. I think you’re finding people are more drawn to small businesses and mom and pop places more than ever. The live music scene is really vital right now because performers aren’t selling music like they did. It’s a very crazy time in the music business right now if you’re a recording artist. The younger artists don’t even know the times of selling music but we did selling music. That was how we made our living. Now, it’s just not there. They’re having to get out and play again and oh, I would have hated that. When you put out a record now, it’s almost a narcissistic project to do it because you’re probably not gonna sell a lot of it but you need to do it for yourself. I really wanted to do a project this last couple years and I didn’t have time, I didn’t really need to do it, I’m not out on the road. I don’t have really a good format to sell it, to make it worthwhile to do it but I had to do it just creatively. That musicians will always do that.
If you’re really trying to make a living now, you’ve got to get back out and play live. There’s a lot of music when we opened, there were so many venues not open yet. We opened, The State wasn’t opened, Raul’s which is an old, old place but they were closed. All the places in Portland that when I was coming up where there was a vital music scene were closed. When we opened, it was a good time to start because people were hungry for a venue too, just in our immediate area. Artists were looking for a leg because there really wasn’t one in Portland for those first years. It started happening and then of course, the recession hit. Our timing was good and it was bad but we got through it and we’ve got a lot more competition now because artists are performing so much, there’s a lot more live music happening but people are still coming to us for a special experience. There’s something for everybody everywhere I guess.
Lisa: For people who have been listening, I will refer you to our show notes page. We will direct you towards the website for the Stone Mountain Art Center. I’ve been speaking with Carol Noonan who is an American folk singer-songwriter. She and her husband Jeff Flagg, a commercial fishing net builder, run the Stone Mountain Art Center and Musical Hall behind their house in Brownfield, Maine. Thanks for coming in today.
Carol: Thank you. Thanks for having us in the big city.
Lisa: You have been listening to Love Maine Radio, Show #265, Entertaining Maine. Our guests have included George Dvorsky and Carol Noonan. For more information on our guests and extended interviews, visit lovemaineradio.com. Love Maine Radio is downloadable for free on iTunes. For a preview of each week’s show, sign up for our e-newsletter and like our Love Maine Radio Facebook page. Follow me on Twitter as Dr. Lisa and see my running, travel, food and wellness photos as bountiful1 on Instagram. We’d love to hear from you, so please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Love Maine Radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Entertaining Maine show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.
Speaker 5: Love Maine Radio is made possible with the support of Berlin City Honda, The Rooms by Harding Lee Smith, Maine Magazine, Portland Art Gallery, and Art Collector Maine. Audio production and original music have been provided by Spencer Albee. Our editorial producer is Paul Koenig. Our assistant producer is Shelbi Wassick. Our community development manager is Casey Lovejoy. Our executive producers are Kevin Thomas, Susan Grisanti, and Dr. Lisa Belisle. For more information on our host production team, Maine Magazine, or any of the guests featured here today, please visit us at lovemaineradio.com